Deathbringer 25 hm: need some help.

[Morning_star]

My guild is attempting since 3 days on that fight, using the 10% buff but we are having hard times. Yesterday finally reached 25% and had to pop heroism, but someone, like always died of marks.
Healing department should be fine: 3 palas, 1 shaman, 1 disci, 1 holy.
Problems we have is dps from ranged too low: we use shadowfury, traps and my knockback, but unless i receive a couple of md(making me risky to dps them) beasts hit in melèe.
Our ranged composition is: 3 hunters, 2 mages, 1 lock, 1 shadow, 1 ele, 1 moonkin. We should be theorically more than enough to down them, also our gear isn't bad, all got more less full 264 tier and icc/toc 25 trinkets.
The fact is that we lose a lot of time to down them, i do really low low dps running away from 3 beasts running to me, so like the ele shaman, and overall dps too low sends healers oom.
Any suggestions, tips ?
Thanks in advance.

[nomad1206]

well pop bloodlust at 35% because he enrages than if u use it at 25% he will hit your tanks pretty hard from 35-25% so use it at 35%. and also one of your healers should go range dps pref a shadow priest. so the holy priest should go shadow. put your death knigths to use chains on adds . the shaman to use earthbiind totem and a frost mage is a must. also the hunter should be able to kite them pretty well.

[Morning_star]

well pop bloodlust at 35% because he enrages than if u use it at 25% he will hit your tanks pretty hard from 35-25% so use it at 35%. and also one of your healers should go range dps pref a shadow priest. so the holy priest should go shadow. put your death knigths to use chains on adds . the shaman to use earthbiind totem and a frost mage is a must. also the hunter should be able to kite them pretty well.

We have earthbind between me and spawn point. You mean we should go with 5 healers? What hunters don't do is distracting the beasts off me, so i can't really dps them having 3 md on to don't let the pala tank aggro them(not using consecration but doing insane threat anyway, even after shadowfury and all beasts targeted by ranged). A frost mage would be nice, but our raid dps is depending by tries floating between 151 and 170 k so maybe a bit low to have also a frost mage, but we could try. Thanks for bl tip!
Last think i forgot to write, is that at 29 % we have 5 marks up.

[Mohak]

If you use it at 35% you will most likely fight the last 10% of the fight without heroism. Wich makes it a helluva lot harder since there will be more marks at 10% then at 35%.

Usualy you should have dps teams assigned to each beast rather then you trying to draw them all out.2 dps/beast should be enough but help out as soon as your beast is down. Just make sure that every group has a slowing effect. E.g. put the sp with one of the mages..you as a monkin with a lock and the ele with the other mage...and so on..so you all benefit from slows/knockbacks. You use 3 hunters but usualy 1 frost trap is enough so it's a dps loss to have all 3 hunters to lay them down. Try and use all 3 traps only if it is really really necesary.If one of your team is having trouble with the respective beast you can use the tanks to stun when they spawn/the lock to aoe stun and so on..you get the point.

Your paladins should be able to take care of 2 marks each...beacon one and just spam the other..so that should be 6 covered marks.From what i am hearing from our own holy paladins it's more of a holy light spam rather then fol and make sure the beacon doesnt drop off the 1st mark or it's as good as dead.Also put the shaman in the melee range/team since he can cover 1 mark automaticaly with ch and if hes good a second mark aswell thus releaving abit of the pressure on the paladins.

If you get to the 7th mark things tend to go from worse to "oh shit"so that kind of acts like a soft enrage.Just keep trying and you will get it sooner or later.

On our 1st kill it took us like 2 days to adjust to the healing and handling the beast before he went down so dont discourage yourself. Saurfang in terms of difficulty is like the 4th hardest b4 Lk.

[bush]

I guess you've got a bit different tactic then what i run in my guild.

Try pulling him to the middle of the room and assign two dpsers for every blood beast, assign the dps to a position and not to a mark or such.

Seeing as you've got 9 ranged and not 10, you should have a rogue tott a target to a ranged and stun it when he gets combo points, and then a fury warrior piercing howling the adds when they spawn instead of putting out traps. We use shadowfury everytime they spawn of course.

This tactic works galantly for us at least, about marks dying, put paladins on 2 marks each and just have them spam holy light when he's on high blood power, when he's going on low they can combine a bit of holy light and flash of light. Too bad you aren't using any restoration druid, they're quite useful to hot the marks.

(Oh and, heroism / bloodlust is best used when he's getting high blood power around 20-25% imo.)

Refresh beacon of light on low blood power too, use bops early in the fight to prevent the blood boils from giving him alot of blood power.

When we kill him he's about ~73% on first mark, we end up with 6 of them when he's dead.

[Pullup]

Ok.We wiped about 10 times and got it the day before yesterday.
Our setup was far from optimal and the plan was to just try it out to be honest.
I think your healing is a problem if marks die.We got to an attempt where we had 7 marks and we still covered all of them.
We use 2 resto shammies only 1 holy pala(if I remember correctly you have 3 or 2?) anyway each pala should focus on 2 marks so first pala first 2 marks second pala mark 3 and 4 and if you have a holy priest/disc let him do mark 5.Ours is really good so he does 2 marks usually so anyway if you can make him do mark 5 and 6 or just 5 and let a random healer do mark 6.
Tank healing is insane this is why we use 2 resto shammies.At least 1 mark is on meelee and having the resto shammies chain heal meelee helps a TON!.
Have your tanks use non stamina trinkets as they really get gibed too fast for 2-3k hp to be usefull more than an avoidded attack.
I sugest getting ora3 and seeing how fast people are switching to marks. 1.5sec< is good more than that you need to switch people around.
Every single range needs ONLY 6k dps granted that there are 2 ranged dpsing 1 mark for it to kill him.
HAve a warrior use Howling terror or whichever ability you can think of.
Otherways GL

[Deleted]

the shaman to use earthbiind totem and a frost mage is a must. also the hunter should be able to kite them pretty well.

Main issue on this fight is DPS, shouldn't require a ranged DPS to "kite" the adds, they should die before they get to their targets. A frost mage isn't a must, adds don't seem to be able to be slowed below 50%, so a piercing howl from a warrior would do the same. Shadowfury and/or moonkin knockback + piercing howl and adds shouldn't cause any difficulties.

Main difficulty seems to be the healing, we ran it without a 2nd paladin healer and that's what makes it really tough. Proper healing assignments and spreading for adds is what makes it go down.

We tanked the boss in the middle of the room so every ranged had enough time to target an add, where melee DPS would just sit on the boss 24/7. This worked out perfectly with DPS going up for melee and ranged having no trouble dealing with the adds. We used 8 ranged DPS for that. Hope this is of any use.

[Zogrim]

At our firstkill (first week with 5%buff) we had to put much effort and time into this encounter.
Even though the fight looks plain simple, you'll probably need some practice concerning the adds.
Just make camps of two and let each camp kill the add which is the furthest away.So you pull them crosswise.


I just used different colors so you can distinguish the lines better from each other.
make sure to have a knockback in the southern camp and he/she should use his/her knockback as soon as the adds meet in the middle (since you pull them crosswise they're going to stack right at the boss).If you want to, you can use a shadowfury before knocking them back.
Your rogues should also apply crippling poison to the adds, since they can apply a unique 70% slow.
You let you mut. rogues skill deadly brew instead of fleet footed (which is useless for this fight) and your combat rogues should use 2 additional weapons with crippling poison on them.
via makro they can easily apply the slow as well.
I just C/P the makro I already posted in the rogue's forum:

#showtooltip
/cast Fan of Knives
/equipslot 16 (dagger name)
/equipslot 17 (dagger name)

next makro, as a combination:
#showtooltip
/equipslot 16 (Previous MainhandWeapon)
/equipslot 17 (Previous OffhandWeapon)
/cast Sinister Strike

By doing this, you don't risk to waste 60 Energy to another FoK. Instead you start right of your rotation with the most pushed button. If you already have 5 Combopoints and don't want to waste 40 Energy on a SS, I'd recommend you to press the Sinister Strike Makro, durin the Global Cooldown of your last FoK. As a result you swap your weapons but don't use a style-attack.
I use this Makro combination for the SaurfangHC encounter to apply a unique 70% slow to the blood beasts by putting crippling poison on two seperate daggers in my bag. Watch the timer, star to pool your energy when there're about 3 seconds left and simply say hello to the new blood beasts with two FoK attacks.

The difficult part, which requires some practice is choosing the right add, because they often do not spawn exactly like in the picture. Don't focus on marks.focus on the distance between your camp and the add. After some tries this should work

[foibooze]

Set 2 ranged on each add, in your setup u had 9 ranged, 5 adds spawn. In our guild we have melee taking one add down during a hammer of justice (more than enough time to kill it) that would leave you with 9ranged on 4 adds, make sure everyone knows which target to dps and have either have the 3 weakest on one or have the one left over help out on whichever gets down the slowest.

NEVER KITE!

Moving around too much will pretty much always fuck up the bloodnovas, leading to more raiddmg and faster marks.

How bad is the dps? How many marks do you get? with 3 holypaladins you have 6 "easy" marks, more than that and the dps and the positioning fails more than I thought possible.

As ppl have said already - taunt from hunters/dk's/ot aso if they get close to some1 out in the ranged areas - this shouldn't be needed though.

[Zogrim]

If you DPS is really low you could also use divine intervention on a "soft" marked player, like warlocks or mages.
Just set a soulstone on a ret.pali and let him sacrifice himself for one of those.
Just make sure to announce it asap.
something like...after the 2nd mark went on a warlock: "I'll use DI on [Warlocknamehere] when the 7th mark has been cast"
The healers are able to prepare themselves and you have 1 mark less when it gets difficult to heal

[Rawrior]

Our kills go over quite smooth.

Healers

We run with 2 paladins, 2 druids, 1 priest, 1 shaman. Our pallies grab marks 1 and 2, while still beaconing the tanks. Marks 3/4/5 are covered by our two resto druids, and mark 6 is covered by our priest. By this time, the boss is dead. All healers except 1 (1 paladin) is brought to stand on the melee.

Range DPS
This is what I'm in charge of setting up each week, and I always take the first 2 minutes after Boat to set this up. We run with 9 or 10 range DPS. 8 of them are actually at range, while our 1 or 2 hunters stand in melee, far enough from the boss to still beable to DPS as needed. Our hunters never have to move, and can drop frost trap right on the corners of the stairs that Saurfang is tanked on, and just DPS the boss down the whole fight.

Our actual range DPS are as follows: 2 Arcane Mages, 2 Shadow Priests, 1 Aff Lock, 1 Destro Lock, 1 Ele Shaman, 1 Boomkin.

I assign the mages to target and kill their own add. I assign them to the back left/right adds which puts them farthest away from any add possible. The Spriest/Aff lock and Spriest/Ele shaman are assigned to the 2nd add that spawns on the left/right side, then finally the Destro lock and myself (The boomkin) are assigned to the front add. When they spawn, the Destro lock gives the adds 1 second (they dont move in this 1 second) then stuns them, followed by me typhooning them once they take 2-3 steps towards their target. At this point, the adds are at 75%-50% and all are knocked back at the door. Takes another 3 seconds and the adds are dead, never leaving the place they spawn.

If you can do the above flawlessly, then the fight rests on your healers mainly, and slightly on your tanks switching fast. Like someone mentioned above, BOP'ing targets with blood boil reduces the amount of runic power he gains, and if you can get a PWS off to absorb the WHOLE tick, it also helps with runic power as well.

You'll notice I never said our melee have to help with adds, our range never need to run, and our range never really need to help on another target. Granted we've had this boss down 4 weeks in a row now, all it takes is practice.

GL!

[Telaso]

This is probably a bad section to post that in, if you dont get the info needed here head over to the Raids & Dungeons section

[Cocoe]

We've usually bloodlusted at the start, as the main goal is to have as few marks at 30% as possible and this way you gain more dps overall according to some thorycrafting posts.
When it comes to the adds, we have shadowfury -> typhoon. Meanwhile, everyone picks a target far away from themselves so the adds have to run as far as possible. Rogues are very important, and we have avrg 3 rogues tricksing, slowing and dpsing adds to spesific ranged players.

[Morning_star]

Ty all for all tips given in last days. We had it today using divine sacrifice on last 3 marks with boss on 80-90 bp.
I did 9.5 k dps while typhooning too the beasts, and felt really important as moonkin for the success of the fight .
Sorry if can look a bit offtopic, but with the help of the druids(even some not druid) of this forum we worked on the tactics better.

[Degrador]

I moved this one to Raids and Dungeons. If you're looking for tips specifically related to druids (such as looking for ways to deal with movement or something), feel free to create another thread there, but this thread is more about generic boss tactics.

Hmm, just noticed it was something of a (valid) necro anyway. Still, belongs here