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  1. #21

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by fabian
    That is not true, stat weights are normalized to SP, so SP will never be worth more than 1. But I do get what you're trying to say. The gap between SP and Haste become bigger, so the value of Haste lowers.
    Stat weights were usually normalized to PP in BC content, because spellpower was the only stat we really wanted. Everything else was a fraction of spellpower's worth, so it made sense to represent them in terms of .2 spellpower for easy eyeballing of gear.

    More to the point, normalizing your stats doesn't in any case mean that they don't change. When haste is better than SP (and it is at certain gear points), if you normalize to SP then it just means that haste has a value greater than one. I personally prefer to just know how much dps I gain from an upgrade, not the dps gain divided by some arbitrary number.

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  2. #22
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    When hit is normalized to SP, it's also higher than one ;-)

  3. #23

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadix
    Stat weights were usually normalized to PP in BC content, because spellpower was the only stat we really wanted. Everything else was a fraction of spellpower's worth, so it made sense to represent them in terms of .2 spellpower for easy eyeballing of gear.

    More to the point, normalizing your stats doesn't in any case mean that they don't change. When haste is better than SP (and it is at certain gear points), if you normalize to SP then it just means that haste has a value greater than one. I personally prefer to just know how much dps I gain from an upgrade, not the dps gain divided by some arbitrary number.
    Ok, please look through the thread because this has been covered before. Plus, the bold is supporting what I said. I just prefer PP over DPS because, like you said, it is a quick way to know if a piece of gear is an upgrade. I find it better for my sporadic raiding schedule because of school, and I can not know if I will be able to get a piece of gear or not.

  4. #24

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    A lot of high end dps use addons to measure the procs on their weapons, so they know when they're gonna have to refresh dots etc. Heatsync, needtoknow (Saw this on a dps video) so frankly personal preference. I think they'd rather have straight out dps rather than have BM proc on adds or something. Not saying adds not going down faster is a worse thing, but still.

    Predicting damage - the right way.

  5. #25

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    I just posted the formula on how to calculate this... makes me sad. 3,499 haste + BL + both haste buffs = 190.2% haste. You only need 150. The actual number is 2,552. ( 2552 / 3279 + 1 ) * 1.03 * 1.05 * 1.3 = 2.5001. Or 150.01% haste. Even without Lust 3,499 brings you to 1.118 seconds and Lust is 30% haste. 3499 would be pretty close to haste capped with just a haste pot + BM. It's 52 haste short of doing that.
    That's not how you calculate haste.

  6. #26

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Hargrimm
    That's not how you calculate haste.
    What?

    32.79 haste rating = 1% haste = 1.01 when calculating haste
    Not to mention haste is multiplicative.

    So, to make the calculations easier, multiply 32.79 by 100 and add 1.

    Haste % = 2552 / 32.79
    Haste % = 77.83% = 1.7783

    Haste used in calculations = (2552 / (32.79 * 100 or 3279)) + 1
    Haste used in calculations = .7783 + 1
    Haste used in calculations = 1.7783

    Same number in the end, just one incorporates the conversion between the % and the number used in calculations.

    1.7783 * 1.03 (Boomkin/Ret) * 1.05 (Shaman) * 1.3(BL/Heroism) = 2.5002

    If 1.01 is 1% haste, 1 is 0% haste, 2 is 100%, so 2.5002 is 150.02% haste.

  7. #27

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    nevermind

  8. #28

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Duh? My original reply:

    As far as Engineering? It's a moot point. You need 1,462+ haste for there to be a conflict with the gloves + a haste potion up during Bloodlust. BiS gear doesn't even have that much. You'd need to deliberately stack haste regardless of if it was a DPS gain or not to have that much, so who cares.
    well , technically if you were unlucky enough to have black magic proc while you had hyperspeed/pot/bloodlust up you would go over the amount with black magic. so you would lose benefit at that point, however stupid or small that chance actually is. Just nitpicking at this point. Think the OP has gotten the info he wanted outa this thread.
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  9. #29

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    While for the pure tank/spank fight black magic will out rank the spell power enchant slightly, all it takes is losing more than 10% of the proc for spell power to become more powerful in a fight. In ICC there are so many fights where if it procs at the wrong time you lose out compared to spell power. If it procs right as you get stunned or have to move, you lose to much of the proc to make it worth it.

  10. #30

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by jonish
    well , technically if you were unlucky enough to have black magic proc while you had hyperspeed/pot/bloodlust up you would go over the amount with black magic. so you would lose benefit at that point, however stupid or small that chance actually is. Just nitpicking at this point. Think the OP has gotten the info he wanted outa this thread.
    1,462 haste + potion + BM + hyperspeed = 2,552

    See Fabian's math above. 2,552 haste is the haste cap on MF during BL. That's with BM. Without it up you'd still be down at 2,302. Nitpicking is fine, but at least do the math to make sure you're correct.

    In a perfect world with perfect BM up-time and usage (not going to happen :P) you would need to lose at least 10% of the haste bonus for BM and +63 SP to be dead even. So the cutoff point would actually be 1,487. But again, only with all three up at once, which will only happen once per fight, so you would need to work out when the 10 seconds where this matters is a 10% loss in worth. So with six procs you could actually be what, 60% wasted and it would still be worthwhile? Up at 1,562. :P

    You're right about one thing though, the post served it's purpose. BM isn't worse because of its potential, but because its unreliable.

  11. #31
    Legendary! seam's Avatar
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    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    http://milamber.ch/spellhastecap.html


    Just for those who want to look at it with that thinger

  12. #32

    Re: 63 Spell Power vs Black Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Okay, now can you tell me how much DPS I would gain from a 1.3 PP gain? If you need one number to explain what the other number does and both numbers are normalized you're just adding extra steps. The PP number has basically no meaning for SP. It has meaning for other stats, but only in comparison to SP and it offers no definition of SP. PP is retarded.
    I would imagine you don't really care too much what the exact DPS gain from an item is. What you care is, which item gives you a bigger number. This holds true for PP as well. Both allow you to evaluate gear at a glance.

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