ICC 30% buff does not change dps stat priorities

[Shahh]

I've been seeing some confusion over the effects of the buffs on dps stat priorities. It does not change priorities at all. If you were doing x damage before, with a 30% buff you'll be doing 1.3x. If you want to maximize damage after buff, you'll want to choose gear that maximizes 1.3x, which is the same as trying to maximize x. Hence your gear will be the same. It is not true that SP becomes relatively more valuable and haste less valuable or anything like that. All relative stat weightings stay the same for dps.

[Energy]

Captain Obvious strikes again? :-*
sorry, cant resist it....

[Herecius]

The question of stat values for DPS was never really called up. It's stat values for tanks that are the main concern; straight stam gemming becomes less valuable, as the buff % is more than enough to make for enough health, and it becomes arguably more viable to gem for socket bonuses and avoidance.

[Madsen]

You can never have enough health.

[Shahh]

Captain Obvious strikes again? :-*
sorry, cant resist it....

Yes it's a simple argument but there is still confusion regarding it as you can see from this post in the thread here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/raids-du...mingchants/45/

The Spell Power Coefficient of Lightning Bolt is .9143% (Taken from Wowwiki, tested numbers to confirm that if it's not right, it's damn close)

Lightning Bolt does 754 - 860 Nature Dmg

With 3788 SP, your average dmg with Lightning bolt would be roughly 4931 ((3788 x .9143)+ 807) x 1.155 (1.155 is 1.05x 1.1 to account for Concussion and Elemental Oath talents) I'm also pretending Clearcasting has a 100% uptime.

After the zone buff, the average dmg would be 4931 x 1.1 = 5424 dmg resulting in a 493 dmg per cast increase.

If you had 467 extra spellpower, your average dmg would also increase to roughly 5424
3788+467=4255 ((4255x.9143)+807)x 1.155 = 5425 (5425 is pretty close to 5424 if you account for rounding)

Therefore for a shaman, the 10% ICC buff is roughly worth 467 SP on their lightning bolt casts.

100 haste rating is worth roughly 4% haste in game.
Lightning bolt with 0 haste cast 100 times = 200s

At 3788 Spellpower you would do 4931 x 100 = 493,100 dmg over 200s
With 100 haste with the same spellpower you would do 4931 x 104 = 512,824
At 3788 Spellpower 100 haste is worth 512,824 - 493,100 = 19,724 dmg

At 4255 Spellpower (or with 3788 spellpower and the 10% ICC buff) you would do 5424 x 100 = 542,400 dmg over 200s
With 100 haste and the same spellpower you would do 5424 x 104 = 564,096
Therefore at 4255 SP (or with 3788 SP and the ICC 10% buff) 100 haste is worth 564,096 - 542,400 = 21,696 dmg

As you can see, with higher spell power the same amount of haste is worth around 2000 more dmg because the value of haste scales with your spellpower.

Therefore if your class has a threshold at which Haste > Spellpower, the ICC zone buff could effectively put you over it, which would mean that your gearing / gemming choices could change. Let's say 4000 SP would be the threshold at which you would prefer haste to spellpower. With the zone buff you would need something closer to 3700 SP to reach the threshold.

[Shahh]

You can never have enough health.

I'd argue that if you had a billion health tanking heroic LK, getting your health buffed to 2 billion won't really matter.

[Madsen]

In this game with the currently available stats you can never have enough health.

Your calculations are also rubbish since you're comparing a static stat increase with a scaling stat increase.

[Shahh]

In this game with the currently available stats you can never have enough health.

Your calculations are also rubbish since you're comparing a static stat increase with a scaling stat increase.

Static stat increase with a scaling stat increase?

[Madsen]

All stats that affect dps will scale with a % buff to your damage, but you count as if some don't and some do. I'm sure this has been brought up in the other thread about this but i haven't read it.

[Adeleina]

Does 30% double-affects some abilities? Like righteous vengeance for ret pala (Is it +30% to damage that initiated it and then again +30% each tick?)? If so, it may change stat priorities and gear choices.

[Skrototem]

I'd argue that if you had a billion health tanking heroic LK, getting your health buffed to 2 billion won't really matter.

You could take no healers and dps him down muchos quicker.

[Shiira]

Barring any double dip mechanics the buff does not change the relative values of dps stats. It increases the dps:stat ratio of every stat by X%, but compared to each other they don't get any better or worse. If your maths indicates otherwise without assuming that something is double dipping then your maths is flawed.

[Deleted]

You could take no healers and dps him down muchos quicker.

i Ay Caramba !

[Adeleina]

Barring any double dip mechanics the buff does not change the relative values of dps stats. It increases the dps:stat ratio of every stat by X%, but compared to each other they don't get any better or worse. If your maths indicates otherwise without assuming that something is double dipping then your maths is flawed.

Double dipping changes relative value of stats.

There are different sources of damage. If there is not double dipping, ability A does 30% more damage, ability B does 30% more damage, nothing changes in regards to stats values.

If there is double-dipping, however, ability A does 30% more, and B, affected by it, does (130 % * 130% = 169%) 69% more damage. B is getting relatively bigger source of your dps compared to other attacks.

Now, if B benefits more from certain stats (like in my example - righteous vengeance benefits from crit more than other skills) then it changes stat values.

That's why I'm asking if there is double-dipping in citadel buff.

Of course without double-dipping stat values doesn't change.

[Shahh]

All stats that affect dps will scale with a % buff to your damage, but you count as if some don't and some do. I'm sure this has been brought up in the other thread about this but i haven't read it.

I think you are mistaking the post I am quoting for my own opinions.

[Shiira]

Double dipping changes relative value of stats.

I know that, I was replying to shahh. I don't know about any other class but dks don't have anything that double dips with the icecrown buff, blizzard probably had the foresight to make sure of this for the other classes too. Especially considering that necrosis and scourge strike have double dipped with practically everything else until now.

[Abandon]

I'd argue that if you had a billion health tanking heroic LK, getting your health buffed to 2 billion won't really matter.

And if you are at 100% dodge, 2% dodge is not going to help. Using impossible examples doesn't prove anything.

[Argarock]

And if you are at 100% dodge, 2% dodge is not going to help. Using impossible examples doesn't prove anything.

How many "old-school" tanks just facepalmed?

[Abandon]

Yes, I know it isn't possible to get to 100% dodge any more with diminishing returns, the same way it isn't possible to get to a billion health. As I said, impossible examples don't prove anything. If you were able to avoid 100% of damage then obviously getting more avoidance is pointless, just like if you had infinite health then more health is pointless.

[LeperHerring]

Therefore if your class has a threshold at which Haste > Spellpower, the ICC zone buff could effectively put you over it, which would mean that your gearing / gemming choices could change. Let's say 4000 SP would be the threshold at which you would prefer haste to spellpower. With the zone buff you would need something closer to 3700 SP to reach the threshold.

That would be true if the buff actually (not effectively) increased your spellpower. As far as I know that is not the case, instead the buff simply increases damage done. Therefore the stat allocation that leads to optimal dps without the buff will also lead to optimal dps with the buff.