1. #1

    Is Demo buff really needed?

    We're 10/12 ICC25. We normally raid with 3 locks, with all 3 destro, one going aff sometimes

    Do you think one of the locks should be talked into being full time demo? I tried asking one to go demo once, and he did for a few bosses, and said he didnt like it. The other two swear their dps will drop if they go demo.

    I mean, were progressing fine I guess. 10/12 isn't bad for a 2 day a week, 3 hour a day 25m group. Just wondering what you locks think about demo. Do some of you actually like the spec, and if so, why would a destro lock not like it? Any tips?

    We do have an ele shammie, so demo would be granting somewhere around 130 or so more sp I guess, aside from boosting his dps as well

  2. #2
    Dreadlord BigGann's Avatar
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    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Their dps will drop, until the boss is under 20%. Then it will skyrocket.

    It's more about the utility though. If they lose 10% dps, but give 6 other people a 5% increase, the raid dps will go up.

  3. #3

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    I'm rolling destro/demo and I have to say destro is a more noob friendly and better feeling spec. With demo, you just have to watch well for molten core procs and it can get more fun with more time spent. It varies with the fight, but for me demo comes out on over destro even for personal dps usually and below affl. In addition to that, my pact is a really nice buff since I maintain about 4.6k sp about 95+% of the time.

  4. #4

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    To put it simple:

    10man - no
    25man - yes

    If the Lock has a lot of Spell Power, his dps will increase, as will the raids
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  5. #5

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Look at it this way. Whichever one is demo, will always get a spot due to the raid buff he brings. Kinda like in BC when as a spriest our damage wasn't that great, but you needed to take 2 to cover healers and dps mana especially toward the end of BT and Sunwell. So yes, make one go full time demo.
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  6. #6

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Currently in my guild we have 3 warlocks.
    I'm affliction, one is destro, and one is full time Demo.

    She pulls about 8.5k on a lot of fights and her dps really soars during that last chunck.
    If your warlocks dont like it, tell them to suck it up. I find it to be a fun spec even if I suck at it. I never hear any complaints from our Demo about it being boring so maybe if you pushed them to try it out they'd like it.
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  7. #7

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    If demo didn't have the Felguard or the Metamorphosis, I'd actually love it more than I do now.
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  8. #8

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    It does increase the raid dps. If properly geared the demo warlock won't notice a drop in his dps and does infact excel at some gimmick fights aswell as doing aoe dps. Utility in demon form also means to be able to act as a back-up tank against trash and some adds. I personally prefer demo spec over affliction but I have yet to try destro.

  9. #9

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Your guilds progress is similar to mine, with around the same amount of raiding time per week. I would defiantly tell one Warlock to go full time Demonology for your 25 man raids. The buff will be a big increase for all spell casters and allow the Shaman to drop another totem.

    As for the other two, if there excuse for not going Demonology is because it will effect their dps output, whats their argument for staying as Destruction when Affliction is much better at the moment?

    Anyway everyone should play how they want to, but the Demonology buff is a no brainier really and if there is a drop in their personal dps output the benefit to the rest of the raid should more than make up for it.

  10. #10

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    I'm in a 10-man guild and since the raid setup in normal is not really a big deal my members spec as they like. So the warlock went from destro to demon and surprisingly he does about the same amount of damage on single target and A LOT more AoE dmg on trash. Maybe he just suck at destro, but to me it seems like demon is not that bad and as a raid leader i really like the extra 10% sp for the raid

    My advice is.. try and experiment with every corner of your class. You might find some very interesting play styles and specs.
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  11. #11

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Our raid currently has 3 warlocks, 2 affliction, and me as demo. I raided as destro before the simplifications to affliction happened simply because my latency couldn't support affliction back then. Then I went affliction until the big buffs to demo. Now I am demo, and although my personal dps is a tad lower than it would be if I was affliction, I love the spec.

    The things I love about the spec are: One, my spell power gets absurdly high under procs, and can sometimes set demonic pact absurdly high. At least on one occasion when the stars aligned and all my procs were up at the same time I was over (just) 7000 spell power. Two, while not absurdly complex, there are a few things to watch for. With Quick Decay and procs / bloodlust (I am an engineer so I have the haste glove tinker), corruption can get to tick down very fast. You have to watch for molten core procs, and keeping life tap up keeps it interesting. Third is that it pulls very solid numbers, I don't have a destro lock to compare with, but I stay somewhat competitive on dps with the affliction locks.

    In the end its a pretty solid dps spec that can bring some major spell power benefits to the raid. Between three warlocks in your raid you may be able to find one who enjoys the spec and the way it plays. I know I just love meta, immolation aura for aoe, and seeding everything. To be fair though I love meta each time I use it.

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  12. #12

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Well it's not *needed*. I mean our 10man guild have raided for a long time without a shammy with no problems. Though, if you have three warlocks sat there, why not? I went from affliction to demo. In 10man it is alot different though of course it's not as required considering I only have two other casters and three healers to buff. In 25man therefore it is a no brainer to me. I was asked to consider it by my raid leader since we are a caster heavy setup. And I have to say my dps is no different if not better than what my affliction can put out. I do like the spec, i find it fulfilling and it has been my favourite so far.

    It interests me as well that if your warlocks were so worried about their dps output, they'd be affliction. But meh, destro is good for burst I guess. But yea I would definitely ask one to go demo, there's more to raiding than where they are on the meters, the other casters will love you and you can be quite far up the meter as demo if you excel at it. I am usually second on the meter in our 10mans with around 9k (no shammy) beating an arcane mage and ret pally every time. No beating the moonkin though .


  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Lilixer's Avatar
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    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGann
    Their dps will drop, until the boss is under 20%. Then it will skyrocket.

    It's more about the utility though. If they lose 10% dps, but give 6 other people a 5% increase, the raid dps will go up.
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  14. #14

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Not only will a properly geared Demo lock increase rDPS, but they will also help out the healers with Spellpower. In terms of their personal DPS, the spec is on par with, if not superior to Destruction anyway on a PW fight, and any fight with any kind of vulnerability mechanic will allow Demo to shine further through well timed use of Metamorphosis.

    There is of course more to manage in Demo than Destro, so it's not quite so 'easymode' with 3 DoTs, ISB Debuff, Molten Core Procs, your Meta cooldown, and finally Decimation during the execute phase, but any number of addons can help with that. If their excuse is a loss of personal DPS, then it's simply untrue, and even pDPS loss through inexperience will be more than made up for by them providing well over 400 SP to the raid. In ICC, it is that much better than a ToW. It's not just Demonic Pact they provide, they'll also be providing a 5% magic crit debuff for the entire fight as well. A Demo lock is a very powerful utility spec, and since 3.3.3 it's DPS is certainly competative as well.

  15. #15

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Yes, at this point Demo is required. We're now bringing close to double the SP that Totem of Wrath does and Demo is not noticeably less DPS than Destro. Yes, even in rDPS gear. No, pDPS gear is stupid. :-\

    Now... if you have a bad Demo Lock? Then yeah, not worth it.

  16. #16

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bstore2
    We're 10/12 ICC25. We normally raid with 3 locks, with all 3 destro, one going aff sometimes

    Do you think one of the locks should be talked into being full time demo? I tried asking one to go demo once, and he did for a few bosses, and said he didnt like it. The other two swear their dps will drop if they go demo.

    I mean, were progressing fine I guess. 10/12 isn't bad for a 2 day a week, 3 hour a day 25m group. Just wondering what you locks think about demo. Do some of you actually like the spec, and if so, why would a destro lock not like it? Any tips?

    We do have an ele shammie, so demo would be granting somewhere around 130 or so more sp I guess, aside from boosting his dps as well
    those 2 that swear their dps will drop if they switch to demo are [insert swear word here]
    atm top dps spec is
    1- affi
    2- demo
    3- destro
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  17. #17

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Why do ppl not want to play as demo in guilds?? Im demo and pull atleast 9.5k and give the raid around 550-600 sp. any guild that wouldnt take advantage of of a demo lock is retarded. And if your destro locks say its a drop in dps then they need to L2P. with a pDPS set demo>destro anyday. Even with a rDPS set is a small decrease is output.
    When you do meet a demo lock they are usually only demo cus they fail as a lock and think being demo is an excuse to pull low dps. A good lock can match the same dps in any spec.

  18. #18

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    Affliction and Demonology are topping the meters everywhere. Affliction is slightly ahead of demonology, however Destruction is below both. The ONLY time I go destro is when we need more kiters on Saurfang, and I'm thinking of picking up curse of exhaustion for that.

    I pull ~ 8200 dps as affliction, ~7800-9k{depending on mechanics, how long he's below 35%, if there are other kill targets to give me decimation, etc etc} as demonology, and ~6200-7k as destro in a properly made group{Demo lock, boomkin, getting focus magic, and misery}.

    I personally find destro to be such a large damage loss, that unless they're new to the class, I highly suggest all of them to change to a more useful spec to the guild.
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  19. #19

    Re: Is Demo buff really needed?

    No offense, but it also sounds like you're really bad as Destro. Yes, Destro loses to Demo and Afflic, but not by that much. I hit 13k+ as Afflic, 12k+ as Demo and ~12k as Destro. Demo and Destro are extremely close.

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