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  1. #81

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    I hope they have some changes for sheep, otherwise mages wont be able to CC very much at all next expansion.
    Especially against druids, who are immune to sheeps, can get out of roots and slows easily, and now will be able to dispel sheep off their team mates? That doesn't sound fair at all.

  2. #82

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    To angry to explain my thoughts!! I'm a sad sad shaman :'(
    [img][/img]

  3. #83

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by skyclops
    idd we all know that rogues pounce on enhance shammies as it is now
    rofl @ this change seems no real thought has gone into this from a pvp point of view
    They're completely revamping major portions of the game in Cataclysm. It isn't as if everything is going to be the same except for the change in dispels. I'm pretty sure a TON of thought has gone into these changes, and PvP is likely the largest driving force.


  4. #84

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by 3allz
    I stopped reading here.

    Seriously, do you not think Blizzard are designing the new encounters with these changes in mind? Yes, thats right, most fights will no longer rely on dispels and focus on other stuff instead.

    And if you're still upset because you think it wont be possible to go back to LK at level 85 and kill him, then you're more retarded than I thought. Are you seriosly more concerned about how you will tackle old content as opposed to embracing the new?

    It baffles me how people moan about every single change that they announce because if you ask me, Blizzard have done pretty well so far and seem to know what they're doing. If you disagree then you are a liar because you wouldnt be posting on these forums and playing the game every day.

    Jesus christ.
    The point I was making...which you might have seen had you read the post instead of pulling out your troll stick, is that by limiting which dispells classes bring so severely, then any encounter that requires you to dispell a disease will require specific classes, which will impact 10 man raiding guilds.

    I also stated, which again you missed, as your only purpose to posting was to flame instead of think, that the only counter to this would be to homogenize every single encounter involving debuffs to contain only magic debuffs.

    Now, I've been raiding since vanilla, and a core mechanic to EVERY SINGLE raid in this game has been debuffs and dispells so I'm going to throw it out there that they won't be changing that. My concern is that every single debuff will be magic..which is boring as hell (especially in 25s), or that they will continue their current setup, which will make certain classes inept for 10 man raids. This is not something that effects me a lot, as I primarily run 25s, but I'd venture to guess that the majority of the player base are running 10s.

    Yes, Blizzard knows what they are doing, but they are also human, and make mistakes as often as they do well...hence my concerns.


  5. #85

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddleswitch
    See, here's my issue with what I see.

    Blizz is always talking about bring the player, not the class nonsense.

    Well let's look at this for a moment...

    How's a 10 man group with no pally or priest healer going to kill LK with these changes? With this change you have no choice...you bring one or the other or you don't clear phase 1. What about Rotface? At least on that one the disease drops off. Fights like Yogg on 10 man? 3 differant healer classes or your boned.

    I realize 10 man isn't everyone's focus, but for a huge amount of the player base out there, 10 man is all they can do. These changes are going to force those guilds to spread out recruitment to ensure they bring the class for any encounter with debuffs, rather then bringing the player...a complete counter to your supposed mission goal. This is a pretty damn big problem as a big reason a lot of 10 man guilds never make it to 25 is recruitment issues. I realize the fights above are all very specific encounters from WotLK, not Cata...and I suppose you could homogenize every single imperative boss debuff to being magic. Honestly though...what the hell kinda fun is that?

    I do think it'll be funny when a 10 man raid of level 85s in full tier 13 gear with 2 resto shaman healers won't even be able to get past phase 1 of the Lich King without losing people to Necrotic Plague.

    Hope there is more to this change then is being stated...because as it is now...it's seems like yet another pathetic pvp nerf that carries over into pve...AGAIN.
    By the time these changes go live, no one will really care about ICC except to grab any last minute loot before Cataclysm goes live.

    It's likely that 10 man encounters in Cata will either not require disease/poison/curse/offensive dispels, or alternative means will be provided in case you don't have the required personnel.

    Think about Intructor Razuvious in 10 man mode. You don't need a single priest, whereas in 25 man you pretty much need at least 2, and 4 is ideal.

  6. #86

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    To be honest, all of that seems remotely balanced with the exception of resto druids being able to dispel magic. The lack of a magic dispel is basically the only weakness they have atm.

  7. #87

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by cassinho
    FFS Stop complaining... they are fixing dispelling... increasing its mana cost and stop from being spammed mindlessly... that means Shadow Priest and Warlocks will outlast dispel-spam-healers...

    And they just announced the way dispelling gonna work, they havent say what they gonna do to rogue poisons and other debuffs that stack... which im guessing the gonna do something about it...

    Can't you all just wait until you actually know something before complaining like a little girl?
    It's fairly straightforward. They're going to remove the abilities and make us train for them in a specific tree. Similar to what they did to spiritual attunement for prot in Wrath. It's a PvP nerf with PvE implications, something Blizzard at least claims to not try to do. Of course they included that they would design PvE content around this nerf so now I'm wondering what exactly they'll do to replace it. It seems removing a possible major component of raiding due to PvP is a fucking high crime for most of us.

    I'm starting to get tired of the changes to simplify the game that aren't really simplifying anything. The list is growing:

    - Removing defense as a stat. Then adding crit reduction talents into all tanking trees. Now you're all required to spend points for that talent to get around a boss mechanic. How about just make bosses incapable of dealing crits? That would allow people to not have to spend points on required talents to get around stupid mechanics. Removing defense is a poorly hidden avoidance nerf.

    - Spirit for all healers. OK, that makes sense because we can change spirit to be active regen for all healers instead of stat that's only functioning out of combat and when not casting. Good idea making spirit work like mp5, except that's not what's happening. The solution? Meditation talents for all healers!!!! I'm starting to see a pattern here.

    - ArP being removed. The stat is too "difficult" apparently for the mind of the normal player. Not to mention the "normal" player will likely never reach the point where ArP vs non-ArP gemming matters but that's not the actual problem anyway (there's already other stats with moving caps such as hit for rogues and enhance shaman, Blizzard doesn't see a problem with this). The actual problem? ArP beneficial specs on average tend to perform better then non-ArP beneficial specs. Is this a problem because the stat is too good? No, not really, it may have more to do with the unacknowledged problem of ArP existing on aout 75% of melee dps gear. Hmmm, wonder why ArP specs do so well? Maybe because they have such a larger pool of gear to choose from, crazy idea I know.

    Anyone else seeing this nonsense or am I alone here?

  8. #88

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    Im getting a vial out, filling it with my tears, labeling it "Resto Shaman's Tears" and sending to Blizzards HQ
    [img][/img]

  9. #89

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    From a PvE viewpoint this is both good and bad. It's good in the fact that certain players will have to focus more on dispelling and may even have to setup a specific person to dispell whatever in the fight more so than now. However it takes away the element of finding the "best" way to do certain encounters due to some classes/specs losing the ability to dispel.

    For example, one of the reasons I tank Rotface on my Paladin is my ability to remove the disease. As I'm the one kiting the big slime I'll know when to cleanse and such, whereas a Warrior Tank or whatever what have to rely on someone else to do this. With these changes, situations such as that may be harder to come by when it'll basically just be healers doing all the dispelling.

    And before anyone says anything, I know the rotface debuff is a disease and that it's old content, but my point is that it's things like that which make Raiding interesting to me, in that there's multiple ways to go about certain mechanics in an encounter. I feel that some of this will be lost with these changes but we'll have to wait and see what else is in store for us.

  10. #90
    Field Marshal
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    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    I've got no problem with removing dispell from Prot and Ret pallies. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen them actually use Cleanse in a random dungeon.

  11. #91

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by Offhand
    Anyone else seeing this nonsense or am I alone here?
    When you talk and see things, normally you're alone.

    "Every fresh 80 can do 3k dps!"

    They are removing Defense because they like how druid tanks worked in Wrath, no tanks are going to QQ about dancing around Dcap.

    Change to remove armor pen. makes wow less "mathy" k... so they are making it so its possible to play the game in the game instead of having to rely on RAWR and google... to play their game.... amazing just like other games... where you can play the game in the game instead of having to read 10 pages every time you want want to know anything... imagine that.
    As for prot... haha losers he dmg needs a nerf with the intercept shield bash wtf silence crit a clothie like a mofo.
    Wow.

  12. #92

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    I'm sorry you're bad at this game but there's no reason to spit out stock answers instead of logic.

  13. #93

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by mrwingtipshoes
    When you talk and see things, normally you're alone.

    "Every fresh 80 can do 3k dps!"

    They are removing Defense because they like how druid tanks worked in Wrath, no tanks are going to QQ about dancing around Dcap.

    Change to remove armor pen. makes wow less "mathy" k... so they are making it so its possible to play the game in the game instead of having to rely on RAWR and google... to play their game.... amazing just like other games... where you can play the game in the game instead of having to read 10 pages every time you want want to know anything... imagine that.
    speaks the truth

  14. #94

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    This reminds me of vanilla, I was a paladin. All I did through MC trash, certain bosses in MC,BWL,AQ40 was to click on Q for decursive. If this goes through the worst healer will be put on '"dispel duty" like how it was for the paladins back then.

    I really hope they will reconsider this.

    Also:

    All shaman will lose dispel disease and dispel poison in exchange for Restoration gaining dispel magic.
    Hahaha.


    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabrix
    Im getting a vial out, filling it with my tears, labeling it "Resto Shaman's Tears" and sending to Blizzards HQ
    Send me an empty vial too please :-)

  15. #95

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    the part that hurts me the most as a shaman is losing dispel poison. i understand that cleansing totem was overpowered. but how does it make sense for a class not to be able to remove poison? this is almost like druids back in BC not having a res other than b-res on a 20 minute cd. if this is an attempt to help rogues, they should make rogues poisons into something else, not remove poison cleansing from a class.

  16. #96
    Field Marshal Saiako's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    I see now that after playing ret in pvp(wich I have since vanilla) my days have come to a end. With the removal of cleanse for rets nothing but holy will be a viable spec in arena. I cant even belive that their stomping on a spec that isent even good anymore pretty sad.

    I guess thats it for me im done blizzard finally beat me guess no more pvp for me anymore unless I wana reroll a warrior now. Kinda sad i loath pve with a passion now, but guess its time I got in line and got some free epixx hand outs.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead, and that World Of Warcraft died with him."

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...89lania/simple

  17. #97

    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    [me=Graam]is a sad shaman[/me]
    I can deal with loosing cleansing totem, but as someone who avoids pvp like the plague (a plague I can no longer dispell), counting offensive magic dispell as one of my three is a slap in the face. I can't think of a place for it in pve that isn't better served by a mage spell stealing. Leave us poison or disease, and if you're convinced we're only allowed 3 then leave the purging to dps who's targeting the baddies anyway.

  18. #98
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    I couldn't be happier about this, now only healers can dispel effectively, and even then they have to be conscious of their dispels as well because of a steeper cost. Dot dependent classes rejoice, only a skilled healer can f*** you over now.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  19. #99
    Mechagnome Leftineus's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    "When possible, we’d like to combine dispels into a single action. For example, the druid ability to dispel curses and poisons might be a single spell with a Restoration talent that also allows it to dispel magic. This part of the design isn’t finalized, however."

    I call Bullshit. Once again balancing around fucking Arena/PvP. Thanks for nothing.
    Moonkin are the only casters that don't have a real spell interrupt, and we also won't
    be getting a dispell. Thanks.

  20. #100
    Grunt
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    Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

    Hmm, I really don't quite like the Shaman changes.

    Offensive magic dispelling for shamans? Didn't we have Purge for that? And although it didn't pop over right at me, I was fine with how it worked regardless.
    I can see something useful in Defensive magic dispelling, but it's only for PvP. I doubt you'll enter a raid with 2-3 (10 man) shaman healers to heal yer behind?
    As for curses; nothing to QQ here! yay!

    In the end I don't like the trade-off, we're losing Cleansing Totem in favor for a PvP dispel and something we could've gone rid with using Purge?
    Being a long-time Shaman player, especially a Restoration one, I find these changes slightly hard 'like'. Oh, and I have to get used to the fact I'll be more of a priest, yay? (I know, they're subject to change)

    The entire 'wasting' mana on dispelling seems kind of retarded aswell.
    All with all I think Druids slip under this one just 'bout right. But giving them their dispel magic will make them pretty overpowerd in PvP or so is my guess, frankly I rarely play PvP so I might be wrong!

    QQ ends here!

    - Khana

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