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  1. #261

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Farseer Lolotea
    My death knights tend to get left in the dust anyway. So...I'm going to ask "why blood instead of frost?" and leave it at that.
    This.
    I posted the very same question on the death knight forums not long ago, since no beta is even annouced yet im thinking its not too late to change thier mind.

    Its not like there isnt enough of us who KNOW this is a bad change.

  2. #262

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaraks
    Seriously if They Do Destroy Blood Dps im QUitting WoW.. omg.. seriously Since when you can destroy a SPC? WTF blizzard in WICH )"($()"$ WAY ARE YOU GOING OMFG... QQ
    Do us all a favor.
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  3. #263
    The Lightbringer Gaiwyn's Avatar
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    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    In Cataclysm, death knights will have a dedicated tanking tree, much like the other three tank classes. That tree will be Blood.
    Wow. Just wow. I come to the forums late and this is what I find. Almost 300 comments already, so everything I could say has already been said. But this really is a big bomb that they've dropped! It's about time DKs had a dedicated "prot" tree. XD

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    With Frost as a dual-wield, spell and runic power focused tree, Unholy as a disease and minion focused tree, and Blood as a self-healing, defensive cooldown, tanking tree, we think the focus of each tree is a lot clearer and cooler.
    Now it will be worthwhile for me to have dual spec on my DK, whom I seldom play. I've always wanted to try out tanking, and the Frost tree stood out for me. But now I might swing into Frost to try out a dual wield DPS spec and see how its spell/runic focus turns out. It will be very interesting to try out all three trees! I really am leaning more towards tanking on my DK than with my warrior or paladin. We'll see what shows up with the class changes though, eh.

    For those that are disappointed that they will no longer be able to DPS as Blood, I have a feeling that they are going to make Frost really fun as a DPS tree, and that with Unholy you will find that it is closer to Blood than it currently is, with more passive health regenerating talents and the like. The changes will be great and everyone will get used to them.
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  4. #264

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Part of me feels sorry for all the guys who were diehard frost, sticking with it through the 2H phase, then having to get 1H weps, now for them to be told "No, go blood and get that weapon you d/e'd/vendored a few months ago back else you can't tank."

    Then I realise Cata is still a while away, and the first Quarter of ICC drops a fair few good weps on 10 and 25 that would be fine to tank with starting Cata off

    Either way, I used to love Frost tanking, so will miss it a tad, hopefully Blood gets some nicer aoe threat, else we'll be seeing it as a primarily MT position for raid groups.

  5. #265

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    I can understand the reasoning behind it due to the mastery system, but I am honestly dissapointed. They could just as easily have the mastery bonus change depending on your presence as hack talent tree up and mangle it so that blood is only tank and the others are dps.

    That said, I -enjoy- cycling through tank specs (although my favorite is and always be unholy, even if it was murdered beyond existance by ICC dodge aura), and have done them all, and it's sad to see that go away.

    I also find it incredibly awkward that given 'frost presence' is the tanking presence, talent tree-wise they pick blood. Now there's some dissonance. I mean, I understand how it'll take the least work since blood is currently already a pretty popular raid boss tanking spec with a lot of oh-shit buttons, most health, etc...but still, dissonance exists there.

    Also, kitty/bear feral druid still exists. They've existed since vanilla. Is feral combat going to also become dedicated tank speak and kitty just lost his ninth life, getting wiped out of existence? If they're keeping the kitty, where do they fuse it into? Moonkin tree is dps, but it's also a caster, so that's even more awkward mix, and you can't really use same type of gear. But then maybe you can fuse moonkin/tree, they're both casters! ....Except then you're gonig to get outcry from people saying they like priests or pallies or shaman for having dedicated dps and healing specs. Either way, you're in trouble.

    That's -four- types of specs on druid. With three trees, one spec would -have- to be wiped, if the mastery system is really an issue. You can't really mush two trees together, and then say DK can't do that too.


  6. #266

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    In Cataclysm, death knights will have a dedicated tanking tree, much like the other three tank classes. That tree will be Blood.
    Well I certainly wouldn't call Feral a "dedicated tanking tree" although it is the tanking tree that druids have. And I don't think feral druids are any less of tanks for it.

    Which although it's not completely clear from this, why at least not make it like Feral? You have Frost for DW and Unholy for Pet and Disease Centric DPS, and within Blood you can choose the dedicated tank talents or you can choose the physical DPS trees. Throw in low level talents in the other trees for flavor like Paladins have.

    I don't mind the loss of the "tri-tanking" per se, but as a blood DPS DK (and 2h Frost for tanking in heroics) I really dislike losing that spec.

    and frankly, I don't buy the "well they're changing it all anyway, so see which spec you'll like later" argument. I don't particularly want to DW and I don't particularly want to deal with managing a pet. I've tried both and I can do equally good DPS but I don't like them.

    In order to make one of those two trees the "new blood" they'll have to completely recharacterize the way that the trees work, or else build in a physical DPS centric sub spec to one of them.


  7. #267
    Field Marshal Daegalus's Avatar
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    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Totally unexpected, but makes perfect sense. But as it is now, most high-end raid DK Tanks are specing BLood, yes tehre are some that do it just fine in frost, but blood gives far more effective health in the long run and the self heals are awesome.

    I'm interested to see how they fix up AoE threat for Blood, fix the presences, and so on.

    As a Blood Tank/Frost DPS offspec, this is a very welcome change. I hope they finally balance out hte trees a bit

    Though I miss the prospect of tanking as frost, i used to love the tree when i was doing heroics, but Blood has been so much more fun ever since i switched.

  8. #268

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz
    nooooOOOOOOOOOOOO!! :-X

    now seriously, I am really curious how are they planning on tweaking trees, I tank as frost, so it will be pretty different for me, no HB, no KM... one big sad panda here! but hopefully it still be fun tanking as blood and Im guessing some DPS talents like DRW or hysteria are gone from blood tree in cata.

    It will be just hard to decide which dps tree will be offspec, its too bad blood was my least favorite tree and i was pretty much playing as frost or unholy :P
    why does it not occur to people that they will more than likely incorporate most (if not all) of the tanking talents from the other trees into blood in some form or another? a full consolidation might be overpowered but if they were watered down or edited to be more balanced you would end up with more tools in the long run. Even if they don't include some of the abilities i'm sure your toolset will be broad enough that you won't miss them.

  9. #269
    The Patient Chin Music's Avatar
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    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    As far as I'm concerned this is just a thematic change. I would have preferred it if Frost was the tank tree not because I like the playstyle any better but just because it seems like it fits better with the theme of the class.

    With this change it's likely all the DK trees will be shifting around a whole lot and winding up a lot different to how they are now, but I wonder if they'll make some thematic changes to match, such as changing Blood Presence to the tank pres and Frost to the DPS one. The discrepancy would bother me otherwise.

  10. #270
    Epic! MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Yessssssss

    Maybe now DK tanking will be fun!

    Nothing can hold me back!

  11. #271

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Alrdy knew that!

  12. #272

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaos
    ....Cant wait to see what they'll tweak talent wise .. and if they'll drop DRW for a 51pt'er thats tank based
    What if they kept Dancing Rune Weapon, but changed its function to something more like "Increases the summoner's chance to parry by (arbitrary)%."
    Keeping in mind that in Cataclysm, a 100% chance to parry will still only mean a 50% reduction in damage, an ability such as this would actually only be as about effective as a standard Shield Block (physical attacks only).

    If damage reduction is too boring of a talent, maybe the summoned runeblade could behave more like a pet for its brief period with an option to be used as the defensive cooldown mentioned above OR have a whirlwind attach function that would strike the nearest (arbitrary number) targets for (arbitrary % of weapon damage) every (arbitrary) seconds.

    This is the kind of thing Blizzard loves, as it is yet another decision that makes tanking more exciting AND makes the talent incredibly versatile. You could use the ability to save your life, as a threat boost in a DPS race or to get control of a messy AOE situation. How more perfect could that be?

    AND here's another thing. If the Dancing Rune Weapon acts like a pet with a pet bar with only the two abilities(sharing a cooldown) It would be the visual cue to everyone in the raid that YOU are the tank. Just like you can visually tell that the Warrior with the SHIELD, or the druid with the big BEAR BUTT is the tank, the DK with the big nasty axe floating around next to him is the tank. If you think about it, DKs are the only tanking class that don't give any constant visual indicators of being a tank.

    The Dancing Rune Weapon as a pet concept would also solve the problem of having to go through two steps for an ability that would often be used at a moment's notice. Instead of 1. Summoning Runeweapon & 2. Activating function, you would only have to hit "Parry!" or "Whirlwind"

    OK, wow, that went on alot longer than I expected. The ideas kept flowing. Anyway. to Summarize:

    Keep Dancing Rune Weapon as last tier talent in Blood(Tanking) tree.
    Dancing Rune Weapon functions as an ever-present pet. (Would prevent summoning of Ghoul, as a pet doesn't actually serve much function for a tank)
    Dancing Rune Weapon would have a defensive(parry boost) ability and an offensive (Whirlwind) ability that share a cooldown.

    Thats it folks. Class Development is fun!

  13. #273

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by wbeck85
    What if they kept Dancing Rune Weapon, but changed its function to something more like "Increases the summoner's chance to parry by (arbitrary)%."
    Keeping in mind that in Cataclysm, a 100% chance to parry will still only mean a 50% reduction in damage, an ability such as this would actually only be as about effective as a standard Shield Block (physical attacks only).

    If damage reduction is too boring of a talent, maybe the summoned runeblade could behave more like a pet for its brief period with an option to be used as the defensive cooldown mentioned above OR have a whirlwind attach function that would strike the nearest (arbitrary number) targets for (arbitrary % of weapon damage) every (arbitrary) seconds.

    This is the kind of thing Blizzard loves, as it is yet another decision that makes tanking more exciting AND makes the talent incredibly versatile. You could use the ability to save your life, as a threat boost in a DPS race or to get control of a messy AOE situation. How more perfect could that be?

    AND here's another thing. If the Dancing Rune Weapon acts like a pet with a pet bar with only the two abilities(sharing a cooldown) It would be the visual cue to everyone in the raid that YOU are the tank. Just like you can visually tell that the Warrior with the SHIELD, or the druid with the big BEAR BUTT is the tank, the DK with the big nasty axe floating around next to him is the tank. If you think about it, DKs are the only tanking class that don't give any constant visual indicators of being a tank.

    The Dancing Rune Weapon as a pet concept would also solve the problem of having to go through two steps for an ability that would often be used at a moment's notice. Instead of 1. Summoning Runeweapon & 2. Activating function, you would only have to hit "Parry!" or "Whirlwind"

    OK, wow, that went on alot longer than I expected. The ideas kept flowing. Anyway. to Summarize:

    Keep Dancing Rune Weapon as last tier talent in Blood(Tanking) tree.
    Dancing Rune Weapon functions as an ever-present pet. (Would prevent summoning of Ghoul, as a pet doesn't actually serve much function for a tank)
    Dancing Rune Weapon would have a defensive(parry boost) ability and an offensive (Whirlwind) ability that share a cooldown.

    Thats it folks. Class Development is fun!

    That's actually a cool idea. Having the sword dance around you and provide extra parry :O

    Quote Originally Posted by Ponza
    This actually makes me sad. Not for the fact that Blood got the tank tree. What makes me sad is that DKs had one difference from other tanks that stood out, and made them enjoyable at least in my eyes. It was the fact that you can DW as a tank. If Blood ends up being the tank tree the odds are that it's going to be all about 2H tanks. If I wanted to do that I'd roll a druid. -_-;;;
    It's still different, tanks don't 2H tank either :P

  14. #274
    Dreadlord Nirron's Avatar
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    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Intresting.. but give Warlock changes now!

  15. #275

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    As a Frost tank thats annoying but blood is still a good tank tree and it will be good to put some stability into a Death Knight tanking tree. least give it a real tanking focus that as a death knight we dont have unlike other classes.

  16. #276

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Things I would like to see for Blood tanks in Cata

    *Heart Strike going back to 100% cleave
    *ImpBP reworked or BP changed to the tanking presence. Frost presence could be turned into something where you gain RP faster/more haste. The new BP would have the damage/threat/armor from old FP and ImpBP would increase healing done to you in BP.
    *Combine Acclimation and Spell Deflection or have them lead to each other. I really feel these talents don't get enough love.
    *Buff blood worms or rework into something that heals you when you parry.
    *Mark of Blood. Just buff this imo, really love how it works.
    The idea wbeck85 had about DRW sounds really good. It would further help Blood tanks push the parry niche especially with Spell Deflection in our kit

  17. #277

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Nice change. And you people act as if this will take effect immediately, when it won't. You still have until about late 2010 to keep tanking in Frost/Unholy or DPSing in Blood.
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  18. #278

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Wow. This saddens me. I understand it, but still. I know there were many people who declared blood or frost being then best tanking tree, and everyone pretty much agreed that unholy was built for pvp. But I have to say, I am (until Cataclysm) an unholy tank. I I have a ton of fun doing it. It took me a while to get it to work for me, but in the end I was immensely happy with the results. I felt the time I spent suffering to get it to work was well spent and to this day, and till the rest of days, I feel I own my build.

    I am an unholy DK tank, I got it to work, and enjoyed every minute of it.

  19. #279

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    am pretty disappointed about this.. started with "if you wanna tank as frost you have to go dw" and the argument why frost should been the dw specc was just "it fel most logic".
    Im pretty sure 99% had the same idea about dk in the beginning: frost = tank, blood = dps, unholy = pvp
    my idea of a dk was frost being the immense iceblock absorbing all the hits. while blood was the berserker-like specc, most suited for dw imo. unholy just being the specc with diff pets, supporting auras etc but most in the background of the fight.

    tho i understand why theyre choosing one specc for the prim tank specc, but its still a disappointment they chose blood for this...

  20. #280

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Oh Hell yes

    I admit I am among those who "appreciate the unorthodox talent tree design", but this is like my tanking prayers being listened

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