[OLD] Holy Cataclysm Discussion

[gearscorethis]

Wow, Speed of Light is fantastic. (assuming they didn't touch Judgements of the Pure)

[Deleted]

They removed Inspired Judgements, QQQ...... I was gonna rename my char Judgenator... *sadface*, is it just me but the present talents indicate we are back to healing from the range again... There is nothing there that increases dmg, or motivates a Holy Paladin to stay in melee range to heal. And what about PVP, no PVP talents... Why! Blizz, Why!

[Aminozuur]

Well the new spec looks better then the old one 30sec healing hands+ 60% speed (a nice escape in pvp)/Cone heal/the ret talents which do boost holy like shit+ you see the way they want us to focus on crit again +15% crit holy light, every crit +3% healing(stacking up to 9)/holy shock crit -1.5sec casting/+13% crit holy shock


But i dont get why they did put in clarity of purpose 3 talent points to reduce your casting time by 0.3sec? If you add haste to it its like 0.1sec

With the new talents i guess holy paladins will run with 31/0/9 that means we have 1 left talent point to put somewhere but nothing real great stuff. Pursuit of justice would be the best a 8% movement buff is always great to have.

I dont get denounce 100% chance on crit to reduce the mana cost of your exorcism to 0 and make it instant. I cant see the use of it in pve/pvp you could do some free damage in pve but with the changes to boss hp doubt it will make any effect and for pvp its not bursting anymore doubt it will make any difference there.

Same with tower of radiance every time you DIRECTLY heal your beacon of light target you get holy power why would you do that?
@uridawnblade

Healing hands in the melee/ depending what they do with the glyph of holy light. But yeah the pvp part nothing real new maybe the healing hands talents +60% speed as a escape

[Asrialol]

Meh, I don't like the new beacon change. Only 50% healing transfers to the beacon. That might as well render beacon as useless in 5mans, at least for beaconing the tank. Oh well.

I guess the Cataclysm way of the Paladin is to run to the people who needs healing, stand next to them for the cone heal / healing hands. Sounds great.

[Anderone]

Meh, I don't like the new beacon change. Only 50% healing transfers to the beacon. That might as well render beacon as useless in 5mans, at least for beaconing the tank. Oh well.

I guess the Cataclysm way of the Paladin is to run to the people who needs healing, stand next to them for the cone heal / healing hands. Sounds great.

Remember that the conal heal has a 30 yrd range so the cone will have a wide angle of healing. So it might take some practice with it but you would be able to heal melee from range if you wanted to for example instead of standing next to them. I can imagine the Holy paladin's role in raids if he wasn't assigned to tank healing would be to use Healing Hands around the casters and using Light of Dawn on the melee. Almost makes me want to change my offspec from Protection to Holy in Cataclysm.

[Vellin]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=_7Abg3KN.9ob.paladin

My current holy pvp spec if they don't make any changes( I'm not saying they won't make any changes.)

My reasoning for not getting enlightened judgegments is because you can easily get the hit you need from a cloak or rings. Why waste 2 points for that, and I bet judgement of Justice won't work with the 30 yrd range increase. If you want to keep them in combat in PvP, use the taunt.

[Deleted]

Well the new spec looks better then the old one 30sec healing hands+ 60% speed (a nice escape in pvp)/Cone heal/the ret talents which do boost holy like shit+ you see the way they want us to focus on crit again +15% crit holy light, every crit +3% healing(stacking up to 9)/holy shock crit -1.5sec casting/+13% crit holy shock


But i dont get why they did put in clarity of purpose 3 talent points to reduce your casting time by 0.3sec? If you add haste to it its like 0.1sec

With the new talents i guess holy paladins will run with 31/0/9 that means we have 1 left talent point to put somewhere but nothing real great stuff. Pursuit of justice would be the best a 8% movement buff is always great to have.

I dont get denounce 100% chance on crit to reduce the mana cost of your exorcism to 0 and make it instant. I cant see the use of it in pve/pvp you could do some free damage in pve but with the changes to boss hp doubt it will make any effect and for pvp its not bursting anymore doubt it will make any difference there.

Same with tower of radiance every time you DIRECTLY heal your beacon of light target you get holy power why would you do that?
@uridawnblade

Healing hands in the melee/ depending what they do with the glyph of holy light. But yeah the pvp part nothing real new maybe the healing hands talents +60% speed as a escape

Dude i totally agree with you. The first talents they released were so much fun, now they give us a "run away little girl" buff on HH, HH, Cone Heal, no inspired judgements, a nerfed beacon (i really liked inspired judgements).

So wait, they wanted Paladins to be melee healers with HH, Judgement, Beacon + inspired judgements, etc... Now what exactly are we? And the nerf to beacon... Why! I will probably just cast beacon on OT and spam heal on the MT in cata... Seems they want us to move away from tank healing but the tool redesign will force us to remain in tank healing.

Lets wait and see shall we... I want inspired judgements back!

[Forcelink]

Lets wait and see shall we... I want inspired judgements back!

They already said that its badly designed, because if you dispel buff A from person X, cast by CCed mob B, itll break CC=fucked up.
FOr the PVE side of it, itll result in us doing some decent damage in fights , which means theyll probably nerf our healing to compensate, and thats BAD. BAD

[Elunedra]

They already said that its badly designed, because if you dispel buff A from person X, cast by CCed mob B, itll break CC=fucked up.
FOr the PVE side of it, itll result in us doing some decent damage in fights , which means theyll probably nerf our healing to compensate, and thats BAD. BAD

well beacon aleady got nerfed to 50%, i ont know what is next but id rather play pally whit only afew healing spells ^^, thats why i rolled holy pally an not a priest.

[Aminozuur]

well beacon aleady got nerfed to 50%, i ont know what is next but id rather play pally whit only afew healing spells ^^, thats why i rolled holy pally an not a priest.

This. They try push us more in the aoe healing healing hands/light of dawn 30sec cd, but thats still to much for a good aoe heal .That means it needs to heal for alot if you assume that CoH/lol growth got a 10sec cooldown(blizz wants every healer able to heal tank and raid). So you gief us 2x30sec cd aoe healing spells think we can aoe heal (doubt we will) and then nerf beacon to 50%. When are you using beacon then? You cant dual heal tanks because 1 takes only half healig aka you need 2 paladins or a second healer on him.

Guess light of dawn needs to crit for 80%+ dps health, but that effect on the whole raid. Looks like a emergency button which heals half the room xD. Thats to op for pvp again it gets nerfed to only heal 5 targets or the healing gets down like fuck

[Deleted]

They already said that its badly designed, because if you dispel buff A from person X, cast by CCed mob B, itll break CC=fucked up.
FOr the PVE side of it, itll result in us doing some decent damage in fights , which means theyll probably nerf our healing to compensate, and thats BAD. BAD

Your confusing old build inspired judgements with purifying power, apparently inspired judgements were designed to heal your beaconed target for the amount damaged whilst purifying power was designed to 50%/100% when you dispel a debuff you hit the caster with your judgement ability.

inspired judgement sounded like an awesome ability for holy paladins, If a priest can do chakra, go into arc-angel and keep using smite whilst casting heals... Why the hell can't paladin heal whilst judging? WHY! GNRED RAGE... "Transforming into angry german boy"...

[Fizzlebeard]

Having both our AoE heals on 30 second cooldowns is a bit too much IMO. I don't mind one or both having cooldowns, but rather in the range 10-15 seconds. This feels just like you pop your AoE heals the way you pop Divine Sacrifice and Aura Mastery currently: only on high burst AoE. Sadface I'd like to use at least one of them a bit more in my healing "rotation".

The Inspired Judgements mechanic was cool, bring it back please! Merge it with Enlightened Judgements, and Paladin's have their Archangel/Chakra.

Problem: Holy Power stacks to max. 3 currently. Because Holy has only one use for Holy Power (Word of Glory), the healing rotation becomes very static. Shock x3 -> Word, filling the cooldowns up with Flash/Holy/Divine. Yeah, you'll stack Holy Power faster, because you WILL be healing the beaconed tank, but having only one use for your combo points is bad.

Solutions: Redesign Divine Favor to consume Holy Power without a cooldown, and let it buff all our spells. I'd like an Inquisition clone for Holy, to use if Word isn't needed. Or make Inquisition (which is baseline) work on healing too. Or let Divine Favor lower our AoE spell cooldown: "Divine Favor reduces the cooldown on your Healing Hands and Light of Dawn by 5 (10?) seconds per Holy Power consumed."

The 50% Beacon is not a problem. They are slowly moving Beacon away from making the tank immortal, and just making it a Lifebloom-"like" powerful tank-HoT.

[Deleted]

^ I love you.

[Fizzlebeard]

On second thought, making Inquisition work on healing done is not a solution, because then it will become a buff you need to keep up. This works for DPS, it doesn't for healing. The Holy Power buff for Holy Paladins should be very short (next spellcast, 2-5 seconds max.), not long like Ret's Savage Inquistion. You could even keep the current Divine Favor +crit mechanic, just make it work off Holy Power.

I hope Holy Power will stack beyond 3 in their final design, like 10. Being able to stack 3 fully powered Verdicts or Word of Glory right after each other (or a combination of the two) might be problematic in PvP though.

[Deleted]

Some interesting things coming out of that, some things I like and some things I don't but I can partly understand why it has been done.

Lets start with the bad.

Firstly Beacon of Light, it has basically been murdered. You can't heal the raid and keep the tank up anymore with it. There reasoning for this would surely be that they have given us more raid healing utillity however the two new AoE spells we get, Healing Hands and Light of Dawn are on long cooldowns, 1 min (30 seconds with talents) and 30 seconds respectively, and to me does'nt really justify the nerf to Beacon of Light. This means we are taking a step backwards to TBC days and just healing the tank with beacon on the off-tank or sponge and helping out with raid healing every 30 seconds.

The new talent Tower of Radience is even more of a failure. Blizzard have said they wanted us to have more utility and be able to raid heal and yet here is a talent that promotes the healing of just one target. Fights will consist of spamming the tank and then using the holy power when it is charged. This truely is TBC gameplay reborn.

Holy Paladins lose Divine Sacrifice now, that skill was awesome for fights with large spikes in raid damage.

On the positive side.

The new talent trees are nice. Blizzard did well in the fact that for the first time I couldn't see the cookie cutter spec straight away. The Holy tree is very cookie cutter but there is quite a bit of choce between whether to spec into protection (for healing increase) or retribution (for increased crit).

I am kind of confused by the Denounce talent in the Holy tree, critical spells give us an instant cast, free exorsism spell. This might be to do with mana regeneration, we will have to see.

31/8/2 - Holy/Protection

31/0/10 - Holy/Retribution

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At the moment, my gut instinct is that I hate these changes and think this is going to make Holy Paladins such a boring class to play. It seems that all the other healing classes are getting new dimensions to the way they play......we are getting sent back to TBC.

Just as well I started leveling a Priest, these changes fill me with nothing but fear and dread.

[Pert]

They trees are getting better. For Holy PvP so far I'm thinking 31/7/3:

www.wowtal.com/#k=v7yka2_.9ob.paladin

I agree with the others who say Holy Paladins need more ways to spend Holy Power.

[Gyrocco]

in my opinion

changes will be made will not change our role in the raid. Blizzard only give us additional spells to heal depending on the context of the fight.

It's up to you to decide if you want to use them. Nevertheless, we still have our holy light spell for spamming. Also, note that holy light will cost less mana versus flash of light (6% versus 7%). In this context, I do not see how it will affect us.

Also, do not overlook the power of the Healing Hands and Light of Dawn, both aoe healing spells. According to the tool tip of Beacon, nothing tells us that the healing from HH and LoD will not be transferred to the Beacon target. Implicitly, if you position yourself correctly, you can generate a high HPS to heal the tank.

I'm telling you, these changes will strengthen our role in the raid. Possibly the Paladins will top the healing meter more than ever. And surely as the other classes will QQ and we will be nerffed.

Finally, I'm quite happy with all these changes. We will remain the best tank healer with more arsenals for raid damage!

Pally Forever!