[OLD] Holy Cataclysm Discussion

[Kezy]

They are doing both, via Spirit and additional "mid heals" between Holy Light and Flash of Light (They'll probably call it Healing Light, too....)

Yeah, I know the mid-sized heal will help our mana management some but I don't see Spirit as a regen boost for us. Its just replacing MP5. I don't see it as a stat we will stack over Int or Haste. Although, Int = Spellpower now makes FoL a lot more attractive.

[Ronark]

Yeah, I know the mid-sized heal will help our mana management some but I don't see Spirit as a regen boost for us. Its just replacing MP5. I don't see it as a stat we will stack over Int or Haste. Although, Int = Spellpower now makes FoL a lot more attractive.

It is possible that they increase the Int > Mana conversion for Paladins, or have a deep holy talent that gives your heals a chance to proc your helpful seal on yourself (I.E. Light and Wisdom, similar to how Resto shamans can "eat" a water orb).

[Tro]

I predict:

-They'll come up with some stupid, clunky way to strip us of plate armor or worse yet force us into melee dps plate.

-We'll lose beacon (which easily destroys the only thing that made us stronger tank healers) so that they can let the other healers tank heal as effectively. This will not make up for the fact that...

-...They'll give us one token multitarget heal (READ: "ONE") that will be talented, affect 1-3 people,on a CD that won't bring us anywhere even remotely close to the Priests, Druids, and Shaman when it comes to AoE healing with the tools they have NOW let alone the one's they'll be getting in Cataclysm.

-They'll change Divine Plea so that it doesn't scale off manapool size (making it the weakest regen tool). But of course the 50% healing penalty will stay.

-If we get a HoT it will be limited to one target at a time.

-They will find some way to further nerf Divine Shield like they've done every 6 months since I started playing this game. I can't even fathom what they could do to make it any worse but some how they'll find a way to make it happen.

-SOMETHING will get forebearance added to it but naturally right after they announce forebearance now lasts 3 minutes.

-We still won't get a reliable nuke for leveling/questing/pvp. What little damage we will do will go down further as they spend much of the beta and first patch making heavy-handed nerfs to all our damage abilities because somehow Ret and Prot will end up doing too much damage with them. I do love that my Judgements at 80 are hitting for less than they did at 70 even though I have 3x the spellpower + 10 levels.

-We will still be vulnerable to single school lockout.

-They will find some way to nerf Illumination again (see Divine Shield analogy earlier) only to turn right around and try to shoehorn crit back into the spec (see last Blizzcon's screenshot of the Paladin Talent window and the +Crit Heal Value Mastery listing at the bottom of the Holy Tree).

-There will probably be some new clunky mechanic involving babysitting another minute duration buff.

-They will see how everyone loves Healing Rain and try to emulate that in Consecrate but fail miserably. It will be an complete disaster.

-2 of our 3 new abilities from 81-85 will be tanking/ret tools but not something Holy could ever take advantage of.

-They will nerf Seal of Wisdom and Seal of Light STILL won't do anything worthwhile unless glyphed.

-They'll remove GoHL but will (as in the third prediction above) try to shoehorn it back in as a talent somewhere. Except now it's coupled to the heal we are likely to NEVER use after all the regen nerfs.

.-They will try something with Lay on Hands but nothing that will handle the issues with the CD or Forebearance. It also won't scale with HP (making it a 20 minute cooldown Holy Shock).

And lastly because I've gotten to watch this for almost three betas now, the Cata Beta Forums will look something like this:

Devs: "We'd like to hear some feedback from the various classes and roles"

Paladin Community: "We would like to have more tools as well as the option to be viable raid healers"

Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: "You're a Paladin. If you wanted more tools or to raidheal then you shouldn't have rolled a Paladin"

Paladin Community: "We feel it would better prepare us for what's ahead. A craftsman can not work with a hammer alone".

Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: *FOAMS AT THE MOUTH*

Devs: "We'd like to keep with the original design of Paladins where they are strong singl- target healers. We also want to keep the limited toolkit design because we know that there's SOMEONE out there that doesn't want any new abilities and would be sadface if we gave them any... maybe.... possibly."

Devs: *Buffs the single target healing abilities of Priests Druids and Shaman*

Devs: *Sees that the other classes are filling in for Paladins but never the reverse*

Devs: *Find some lopsided way to prop up Healadins with either stupidly-strong single target healing or OP Mana regen around the middle of the expansion*

Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: "Paladins are too strong in the area of <insert something here>! It makes them better single target healers! Fix (ie: "Nerf") it!

<repeat during next expansion>

This made me LOL ;D and made me Cry :'(

[xdwbx]

I saw this in the General Forums (maybe not a lot browse there). Aparrently the Severed Essences in ICC have been using Healing Rain, Necrotic Strike, and Heroic Leap.

The Paladin mob casts http://www.wowhead.com/spell=71953

Considering that the aforementioned skills form other classes have similar tool tips in the previews, this might be the AOE Pally Heal.

[Ronark]

I saw this in the General Forums (maybe not a lot browse there). Aparrently the Severed Essences in ICC have been using Healing Rain, Necrotic Strike, and Heroic Leap.

The Paladin mob casts http://www.wowhead.com/spell=71953

Considering that the aforementioned skills form other classes have similar tool tips in the previews, this might be the AOE Pally Heal.

Good find! Although I doubt it will function in the same mechanic, as 3% HP/Sec is a LOT of passive healing.

[xdwbx]

Apparently they only cast this when they are about to die so I dont think this is something they have up like a normal aura. Regardless of how they use it, it is possible that this could be not a standard aura, but a spell with a time limit. Kind of like the way Tranquility and the new Shaman spell Healing Rain will work.

[Forcelink]

I got an idea on how blizzard can fix a non-existent problem(SERIOUSLY TANK HEALING IS OUT NICHE! STFU BLIZZ)

Divine Radiance

The paladin activates an aura of divine radiance healing all raid members within 40 yards for X%(Maybe 5-10%?) every 3 seconds until cancelled.

Basically how itd work:
Every time it ticks, mana is deducted from the paladin's mana pool. Itd be a rather expensive amount to compensate for such powerful raid healing

Got this idea from the WCIII immolate, midified a bit

[Crithea]

Beaming Rays (Level 81)
17% of base mana. 40 yd range
Instant Cast 10 sec cooldown

Infuses the target with the Light, causing them to become a fount of healing to anyone within 15 yards for X to Y every second for 10 seconds.
This spell can be cast on a maximum of 2 targets. Holy spells cast on a target of Beaming Ray will be spread to nearby members, up to three stacks.
This spell is off the global cooldown.

_________________________________________________

Of course, proportionally scaling with people in the area, much like the new Healing Rain will do. I really don't do numbers, so have fun if you wish balancing it. The idea is you toss the Ray at someone, then heal them and it spreads out, and it also allows assistance from players, aka coordination, or just clever placement of your Rays.

Then the obligatory "Light" spell which will fill the all purpose heal role.

[Picante]

Many good ideas out here so far.

I however, wouldn't be too surprised to see Holy Light getting a reduction in mana cost and healing output, with the intent of it filling that middle tier heal spell. I also see Blizz buffing Holy Shock in a way that makes it very useful in pve (probably buff infusion of light such as reducing the mana of the next Holy Light by x% rather than cast time). I do think that if we get a hot its either going to be a buff to the FoL hot such as the t9 4p or not requiring sacred shield up unless they already changed that, haven't played my pally in several months. Finally as others have said, a channel spell might be added. I was thinking something along the lines of penance, albeit with a longer cd, definitely a higher mana cost, and possibly more throughput~think of an emergency heal.

Contrary to other ideas, I do not see a consecration-like aoe heal as Blizz has mostly done away with positional requirements on most spells. I do not expect to have to run up to the melee to do an aoe heal. Glyph of Holy Light will most likely stay the way it is to fill this role. That aoe healing aura actually seemed like a halfway decent idea and I wouldn't be too surprised to see it instead of what I said earlier. In addition, Beacon of Light is such a strong spec defining ability that I do not see it going away, or being nerfed into uselessness.

Blizz has stated over and over that they do not want us to be spamming Holy Light all day. I do expect a new healing spell, but I also expect that both Holy Shock and Flash of Light will receive buffs to make them pve worthwhile. To balance this we'll probably see a Holy Light nerf which won't kill it as it will still be the bread and butter Holy Paladin spell, just expect to use the other two spells that we currently have more often.

Really I am not worried about what will happen to our spells and what new talents and abilities we're getting compared to other classes, what really has me worried is how intellect is going to be the go to gem for probably every caster. Seems like we're getting the short end of the stick on that one.

[Tro]

Here another of my spell ideas for Holy.
Be ready, these spells I made for another game, so they would need to be formatted to fit WoW. But they could fit.


Divine Intervention: Save target's life, healing them for (X) health, and a additional (Y) health if the target is below 25% hp. If target dies within 5 seconds of using Divine Intervention, there is a 50% chance for them to return from the dead. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 mins per Paladin

Armor of Faith: Increase Armor by (X) and Caster Stat by (Y). Casting spells become (Z)% faster. Last 30seconds or (G) charges

Hand of Martyr: 30second cooldown Redirect all harmful spells directed at friendly targets to yourself. Effect and Duration is reduced by (X)%[1-50max]

Halo of Light: 60 second cooldown Heal all party members in targeted ground area for (X) hp.

Divine Insight: 5min cooldown Illuminates the area around the Paladin and reveals hidden enemies. Last (X) seconds

Fist of the Heavens: 30second cooldown. 2second cast. Calls down a Holy Bolt of lightning on the targeted ground area dealing (X) Holy Damage and Purifying the ground into Holy Ground, dealing (Y) additional HolyFire damage per second, over (Z) seconds to any enemy that stands in the target area. and Heals ally in the area for (Y) over (Z) seconds.

[lewis10123]

Please Please Please leave Beacon alone..

This

[urrim]

It would be cool if you could apply sacred shield to multiple targets, i believe paladins could do this previously and this would be a very useful way of increasing our raid utility by SS and Hotting everyone.

[Asrialol]

It would be cool if you could apply sacred shield to multiple targets, i believe paladins could do this previously and this would be a very useful way of increasing our raid utility by SS and Hotting everyone.

Yeah, it was like that in the start of Wotlk. Hope it doesn't happen again, since it completely crushes Disc priests in every way.

I'm pretty happy with Holy Paladins at the moment, we are actually over the top in dual target healing. I'm hoping for some decent stuff.

[Arganaut]

I personally believe out of all the healers Holy Paladins need the most work.

Firstly DI and Lay on Hands redesigned to be more useful. Forbearence removed from the game for ever with instead a reduced effect on abilites, i.e. if you use AW, Divine Shield duration is reduced, or HOP now only absorbs damage equalling X amount.

I will wager that Holy will get a 3rd heal to complment FOL and HL but rather than something boring like "Greater Holy Light", I want something unique.

The rest of my 'desires' to see Holy re-worked stems from the belief that they should do some healing through damage and leading front the front.

For a class that wears Plate there has never really been any use for it, besides survivability of course, but Holy rarely have a reason to put themselves in danger or harms way.

I love the Shaman Healing Rain idea, and would like Holy to get a Holy Consecration along similar veins. Get Holy amongst the action!

Holy Shock, I am not a fan of this spell at all, and rarely believe it is worth losing a GCD, but I think Pallies still need to retain a 'nuke' heal and it has it's uses. I've always thought Holy should be Judging Light and this spell should scale with a stat that benefits Holy more so than Prot or Ret and in such as a way as the paladin can Judge on demand without being penalised.

So I would like to see these spells developed to work better in tandem something like:

Holy Shock heals for X amount but it places a 'Holy Beacon' effect on the target for 30 seconds.

The Infusion talent is reworked to increase the cast time of your next Greater Holy Light or instant FOL.

Judgement of Light has the same effect as it has now but each Judgement by the Paladin heals the Holy Beacon for the amount of damage caused (which works out to be par with a Holy Light).

I can also see Paladins getting a Hot, don't ask why, I just think its the way Blizzard is going to make all Healing classes viable in all roles. But I think classes need to retain a niche.

So maybe something again around our Judgements, so when a player is below 50% HP, all attacks will heal the attacker for triple.

Bring is something for our Seals so when Holy attacks a target it has an affect on the party/raid.

When a Holy Paladin attacks the target with Seal of Light it places an effect on all members of the party/or RAID healing for a % of damage caused.
When a Holy Paladin attacks the target with Seal of vengenace is absorbs raid damage by X amount of damage caused
When a Holy Paladin attacks the target with Seal of Light it - does something not mana related.

Beacon of Light will remain for standard Tank healing duties, but the rest something different to give Holy a different perspective on healing if they wish too.

[Copain]

I will wager that Holy will get a 3rd heal to complment FOL and HL but rather than something boring like "Greater Holy Light", I want something unique.

Considering how the new spells have been so far, I doubt it'll be that simple for a high level spell. There might be a new low level one tossed in though; but I highly doubt that will be the new holy spell for the expansion.

[FiveDkp]

Just like Paladins were going to get blessing of spell warding
We won't get it.

[Forcelink]

I personally believe out of all the healers Holy Paladins need the most work.

Firstly DI and Lay on Hands redesigned to be more useful. Forbearence removed from the game for ever with instead a reduced effect on abilites, i.e. if you use AW, Divine Shield duration is reduced, or HOP now only absorbs damage equalling X amount.

I will wager that Holy will get a 3rd heal to complment FOL and HL but rather than something boring like "Greater Holy Light", I want something unique.

The rest of my 'desires' to see Holy re-worked stems from the belief that they should do some healing through damage and leading front the front.

For a class that wears Plate there has never really been any use for it, besides survivability of course, but Holy rarely have a reason to put themselves in danger or harms way.

I love the Shaman Healing Rain idea, and would like Holy to get a Holy Consecration along similar veins. Get Holy amongst the action!

Holy Shock, I am not a fan of this spell at all, and rarely believe it is worth losing a GCD, but I think Pallies still need to retain a 'nuke' heal and it has it's uses. I've always thought Holy should be Judging Light and this spell should scale with a stat that benefits Holy more so than Prot or Ret and in such as a way as the paladin can Judge on demand without being penalised.

So I would like to see these spells developed to work better in tandem something like:

Holy Shock heals for X amount but it places a 'Holy Beacon' effect on the target for 30 seconds.

The Infusion talent is reworked to increase the cast time of your next Greater Holy Light or instant FOL.

Judgement of Light has the same effect as it has now but each Judgement by the Paladin heals the Holy Beacon for the amount of damage caused (which works out to be par with a Holy Light).

I can also see Paladins getting a Hot, don't ask why, I just think its the way Blizzard is going to make all Healing classes viable in all roles. But I think classes need to retain a niche.

So maybe something again around our Judgements, so when a player is below 50% HP, all attacks will heal the attacker for triple.

Bring is something for our Seals so when Holy attacks a target it has an affect on the party/raid.

When a Holy Paladin attacks the target with Seal of Light it places an effect on all members of the party/or RAID healing for a % of damage caused.
When a Holy Paladin attacks the target with Seal of vengenace is absorbs raid damage by X amount of damage caused
When a Holy Paladin attacks the target with Seal of Light it - does something not mana related.

Beacon of Light will remain for standard Tank healing duties, but the rest something different to give Holy a different perspective on healing if they wish too.

No offence, but Blizzard does NOT want to make the "melee damage dealing healer". Because, itll then do bad damage, and bad healing. AKA noone wants them.
And if you dont LoH on progression, youre half gimping your raid, especially if there was a death that it couldve prevented. AND if youre specced into imp LoH(like you should be), its an extra CD for 20% reduced damage.

[Talen]

No offence, but Blizzard does NOT want to make the "melee damage dealing healer". Because, itll then do bad damage, and bad healing. AKA noone wants them.

While I don't think Blizzard will implement them, their actual effectiveness would be a function of their mechanics. Typically, the primary mechanism woudl be to have the healer DPS and in that way, be able to use or empower his healign tools.

JoL would be an example....the healer drops JoL, and he heals by doing damage.
Make Consecration heal....an AoE heal.
Give the AoW effect....now he's looking out for those free instant FoLs.

Create a Sacred Strike which heals the targets target.
Or a Divine Strike to lower the damage dealth by the target.
Or a Righteous Strike to....

and so on.

EJL

[Ryme]

Good find! Although I doubt it will function in the same mechanic, as 3% HP/Sec is a LOT of passive healing.

Hmm... I forsee the end of Judgement of Light and the addition of that.

We may end up just having Judgement and augmentations of these kind of abilities merged in with Devotion, Retribution and Concentration auras.

Yep, that's now my prediction.

[Ronark]

Hmm... I forsee the end of Judgement of Light and the addition of that.

We may end up just having Judgement and augmentations of these kind of abilities merged in with Devotion, Retribution and Concentration auras.

Yep, that's now my prediction.

Doubtful. Blizzard doesnt want use to switch auras mid-fight, hence why they are still GCD bound.

I can see where you are going with this though: I.E. a Holy paladin that has X ability/talent and casts Judgement will heal everyone in 100 yards for 5% max HP instantly, and leave a 1% JoL debuff on the target, etc.