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  1. #1
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm [Locked]

    RE: MODERATOR TYRANNY.
    I made this post before the onslaught began, and went home from work for the night. I just came back to... this mess. I apologize for the judicious use of locks, I'm attempting to clean it up.

    As such, I'm locking my own thread. I hope that appeases those who are upset.

    ##############################################

    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/24038...eview-warlock/

    Overall, I think we got hosed on the Mastery system. It's simply a raw damage increase to the type of damage we do, rather than an interesting mechanic like Elemental Shamans or Resto Shamans. Yes they can't all be unique and beautiful ponies, but I'd have like a fun mechanic rather than a "lol 20% more damage"

    New Demon:
    Not this expansion please. I agree with blizzard in that it would make our current pets less cool. They can't give us a higher damage pet without trivializing the old one, we can't be given an "upgrade" pet (i.e. super-felhunter, ultra-succubus) because then that just penalizes anyone who doesn't get that pet, and there is really no more room for a pet otherwise. Therefore any pet we get will be marginalized or completely replace the ones we have. I'm not sure if that is appropriate unless you further niche the voidwalker into anti-melee and the felhunter into anti-caster in pvp with the succubus being half and half both worlds. Since this introduces all sorts of balance issues, no thank you to the demon.

    Pet changes:
    *Actual taunt on voidwalker? AOE +aggro ability? Hells yeah.
    *Knockback from a succubus? I'm going to camp Lumbermill, see you after Cataclysm ends. ****
    *Stacking debuff from an Imp? Nice mechanic to increase Destruction damage without increasing burst

    I'd love to see the Felguard get a better buff, such as the ability to give him a different weapon. Axe for cleave, Sword for single target, Mace for a new stun ability or something. That'd make it much more interesting.

    **** Seriously, the succubus change is amazing. I love it.

    New spells:
    Fel Flame - Exactly what we needed, a way to do decent long range instant damage while moving.
    Dark Intent - Focus magic but with less suck! I like it.
    Demon Soul - A lot of demon lovers will like this, and I think I will too. Finally, a cooldown!

    I can't stress this enough - these three spells alone round out our arsenal perfectly. We bring a buff like Focus Magic that buffs us as well, affliction gets a movement oriented spell better than "Refresh dots or lifetap", and we get a cooldown. A COOLDOWN. OMG.


    Affliction:
    I'm concerned. Overall the changes are a step in the right direction (no clipping = less hand holding!), but I'm apprehensive about the duration changes. I probably need to see it in action, but if you get X% haste and it extends the duration of the dot, it may not actually give you an extra tick until X+1% haste. This means we will have severe gear issues where everyone wants EXACTLY X, Y, or Z% haste and not a penny more or less because not all your spells will receive full benefit.

    Drain Soul refreshing all three of our dots at execute phase? O. M. G. DO WANT.


    Demonology:
    Demon Bolt looks really neat, and gives demonology a way to increase single target damage (I assume its on a short cooldown). This is the same mechanic as say Immolate as a prerequisite to Incinerate (for more damage) and Shadow Embrace. Makes the spec much more interesting, and it already is quite interesting.
    RNG cooldown reduction sounds.. gimmicky, but neat at the same time. Hard to balance and probably won't make it into Live.


    Destruction:
    Shadowburn execute? It'll have to do a HELL of a lot more damage to be viable in PVE, but maybe they're just trying to bring it back for PVP? Immolate with Haste AND Crit sounds very good to me, as well as a hasted Conflag dot. If the latter scales with haste as a normal dot would then we have a very good mechanic on our hands. It's possible the stacking Imp buff gives destruction the Shadow Embrace-esque single target boost, but we'll see what happens.

    Shard System:
    3 Shards per fight (lets say 5 minutes) does not a good cooldown make. Needs to be buffed a bit more in some places (the pvp ones are bang-on, but the pve ones are severely lacking). Something like "Haunt + Soul Burn = Your next haunt increases your dot effects damage by 40% instead of 20%".

    Curses:
    I want a new curse if you're only leaving me with two.


    Overall:
    Do like, a bit concerned in places but I'll be first in line to bitch about them in beta.

    R.I.P. YARG

  2. #2

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin
    Shard System:
    3 Shards per fight (lets say 5 minutes) does not a good cooldown make. Needs to be buffed a bit more in some places (the pvp ones are bang-on, but the pve ones are severely lacking). Something like "Haunt + Soul Burn = Your next haunt increases your dot effects damage by 40% instead of 20%".
    I agree with your whole post, but I doubly agree with this.

    With the current burns, either the "evocate" would have to be extremely cheap or shards will be marginalized in PVE. They need to add some small buff that will add up over a longer fight.

  3. #3

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    I agree... For the affliction mastery I would love to see the dot last longer with more mastery. With more dots thrown in with haste, mastery and haste would fit so well together.

  4. #4

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    There's no way 3 shards will be enough on a long fight like Sindragosa, Lich King, Putricide, and on a fight like BQL it'd mean sitting on them until you were buffed by the encounter mechanic.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    The Arms warrior has pet names for all his weapons, while the Fury warrior shows up for battle drunk and half clothed.

  5. #5

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    I have something that isn't clear to me:
    Demon Damage: The damage caused by pets and Metamorphosis is increased.
    Why is it a demonology mastery that it increases the damage you do in Metamorphis. Can't they just buff the talent, or are they gonna make demon form permanent?

  6. #6

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Aturbus
    I have something that isn't clear to me:
    Demon Damage: The damage caused by pets and Metamorphosis is increased.
    Why is it a demonology mastery that it increases the damage you do in Metamorphis. Can't they just buff the talent, or are they gonna make demon form permanent?
    it's going to make your pet/metamorphosis damage scale better with gear, because as your gear improves you'll have more Mastery rating on it, which will increase the special bonus' for the tree.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    The Arms warrior has pet names for all his weapons, while the Fury warrior shows up for battle drunk and half clothed.

  7. #7

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    On the Masteries, as far as I'm aware they're supposed to be boring bonuses. This is what will allow them to take the "10% more boom" out of talents.
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  8. #8
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Talking PvE here:

    •Summon Demon + Soul Burn = summon the demon instantly.
    •Drain Life + Soul Burn = Reduces cast speed by 60%.
    •Demonic Circle + Soul Burn = Increases movement speed by 50% for 8 seconds after teleporting.
    •Unstable Affliction + Soul Burn = Instantly deals damage equal to 30% of its effect.
    •Soul Fire + Soul Burn = Instant cast.
    •Healthstone + Soul Burn = Increases total health by 20% for 8 seconds.
    •Searing Pain + Soul Burn = Increases the crit chance of Searing Pain by 100%, and subsequent Searing Pain spells by 50% for 6 seconds.
    This could use a little more looking at probably. The Drain Soul buff seems huge compared the other specs damage components.

    Also completely ditching the instant summon in the demo tree for the new shard system seems like a huge penalty for a spec that has the most pet damage and now has to sacrifice damage in order to get a pet back up.

    The dot refreshes just seem like a retard check to me.

    I'm not sure the whole random cooldown thing is a good idea, we allready have that bullshit through Molten Core, don;t think we need more of it.



  9. #9

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    I wouldn't look down on the curse changes. We didn't lose any, we just have 2 classifications to use 2 of what we call "curses" now.

    Best of all, curse of agony is now protected by UA and usable in pvp.

  10. #10

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboteckel
    Talking PvE here:

    Also completely ditching the instant summon in the demo tree for the new shard system seems like a huge penalty for a spec that has the most pet damage and now has to sacrifice damage in order to get a pet back up.
    Considering what they've done to increase pet survivability in PvE without making them OP in PvP (especially concerning AoE damage), I don't think this change is going to affect PvE as much as you seem to believe, or else you just have poor pet management. I'm sure BM hunters would love an ability to instantly rez their pet with full hp though on demand in the same way.

    You may disagree, but this is something that affects PvP decisions way more than it will affect PvE.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    The Arms warrior has pet names for all his weapons, while the Fury warrior shows up for battle drunk and half clothed.

  11. #11

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Talk about glass is half full.... :

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboteckel
    Also completely ditching the instant summon in the demo tree for the new shard system seems like a huge penalty for a spec that has the most pet damage and now has to sacrifice damage in order to get a pet back up.
    Losing your FG is going to be losing 2k+dps - getting it back instantly is a buff to your dps. Not having to spend 3 talent points to get it back instantly is a buff to your class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboteckel
    The dot refreshes just seem like a retard check to me.
    Did you notice the addition of new spells? You are going to have more to do in execute phase now, so instead of refreshing UA+CoA you are going to be keeping up other buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboteckel
    I'm not sure the whole random cooldown thing is a good idea, we allready have that bullshit through Molten Core, don;t think we need more of it.
    How can you not love Molten Core - its one of the few things that warlocks currently have to respond intelligently to. Otherwise Demo would be mind numbingly boring. When you have "quick respond to the proc" situations, it gives you a chance to increase your dps through skill instead of just gear+not screwing up your rotation.

  12. #12

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    i am liking basicly all of these changes.

    I am going to assume that shadowburn will no longer cost a shard.

    also with curse or weakness elements and tounges i think we should get another Bane spell. in pvp we would only have the choice to use bane of agony as you cannot use bane of doom [ unless they change that ]
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  13. #13

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    admittedly some pretty nice looking changes did happen but over it's meh. though, i must say i dislike dark intent. it's just lack luster clone of focus magic. I'm. also not a big fan of demon soul either

    Fel flame spell is nice and shadow burn change is pretty good regardless of how much more at <25%. Doesn't cost shards so when ur moving and dont have anything to cast then itll fit.

    Btw anyone notice it talked about a possible ability to reduce Bane of Dooms CD? pretty weird considering u dont need to recast and faster. who knows maybe a change in spell mechanics. I remember they talked about a possible change to cast on players.

  14. #14

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    You make an interesting point about the execute phases. I'm assuming either Drain Soul or Demon Soul will have a Soul Burn ability added to it, so Affliction's execute phase is going to be either "Soul Burn, Demon Soul, Drain Soul" or "Demon Soul, Soul Burn, Drain Soul." That officially marks the most times I've ever written Soul in one sentence. I imagine I will likely be repeating that number at some point in the future.

    I don't play Demo enough to really understand what it's execute phase is like, and, with the new dd spell, it's going to be difficult to really suss out what the rotation is going to be. We don't have enough information about that spell yet.

    It doesn't really look like destro's execute phase is going to change too terribly much. We'll just add Demon Soul into the equation and continue to nuke.

    Edit: I take that back. We'll also be adding Fel Flame into the Destro rotation, which is going to be interesting. Destro is going to have a lot of cooldowns to balance now.
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  15. #15

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Out of curiosity, why is it OK for a moderator to make a new thread about these changes instead of posting in the sticky, but everyone else's threads get locked?


    I am not responsible for the double-standard and as a way of apologizing for the mess I have locked my own thread ~Gherkin

  16. #16

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by anaalius
    i am liking basicly all of these changes.

    I am going to assume that shadowburn will no longer cost a shard.

    also with curse or weakness elements and tounges i think we should get another Bane spell. in pvp we would only have the choice to use bane of agony as you cannot use bane of doom [ unless they change that ]
    uhh yeah Doom in world pvp "be tha shizel" when somone is racing above you on there 385% pvp/raid mount and you just seak it on and follow til you find there corps

  17. #17

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Simple logic mate. Easier and much more conveniant to make the topic in one place rather than having 9999 members make their each individual post about pretty much the same thing.
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  18. #18

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by kabshiel
    Out of curiosity, why is it OK for a moderator to make a new thread about these changes instead of posting in the sticky, but everyone else's threads get locked?
    same reason why some moderators trolls these threads in the first place

    I am not responsible for the double-standard and as a way of apologizing for the mess I have locked my own thread ~Gherkin

  19. #19

    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    i disagree on that we have a minion for each roll, it would be more fun to have an aoe minion.
    imo, warlocks can switch minions more often for certain parts in raids for example

  20. #20
    The Patient OoMally's Avatar
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    Re: Gherkin's Take on Warlocks in Cataclysm

    New Demon:
    Not this expansion please. I agree with blizzard in that it would make our current pets less cool. They can't give us a higher damage pet without trivializing the old one, we can't be given an "upgrade" pet (i.e. super-felhunter, ultra-succubus) because then that just penalizes anyone who doesn't get that pet, and there is really no more room for a pet otherwise. Therefore any pet we get will be marginalized or completely replace the ones we have. I'm not sure if that is appropriate unless you further niche the voidwalker into anti-melee and the felhunter into anti-caster in pvp with the succubus being half and half both worlds. Since this introduces all sorts of balance issues, no thank you to the demon.
    Agree completely here, what would the 'new demon' even do?

    Perhaps a demon model change, but not a new demon
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