Cataclysm Class Preview: Hunter, X-53 Mount

[Vindein]

4. Trap launcher makes no difference to CC, and unless there is some vast change, no difference to DPS. So it's utterly without purpose.


THIS SOO MUCH FUCKING YES TO THIS STATEMENT!!

[Falthoran]

Yeah, definitely not liking exchanging mana for focus right now....

[Vindein]

I've got a question now, I have no idea if its already been brought up, but, will hunters get a NEW ability at 80 since they are removing freezing arrow?

[Aesthier]

...However, there is a problem with a model that requires CC, and if you played a Hunter throughout TBC you may not have noticed it as keenly as some others did.

The problem is that once you start to build content around the assumption that there is CC in the party, then that CC has to be there. That might seem like common sense, but remember that not every class can Trap, or Polymorph, or otherwise keep an add out of the fight as long as is necessary. In TBC, a lot of the times two or even all three of your DPS needed to have CC in order to run heroics. Even worse, some heroics required very specific forms of CC (like Priests in Crypts)....

Just thought I would point out that while your beautifully written post places the reason CC is not viable for heroics from a developers perspective (IE not all players want to CC) you are either forgetting, or choosing to dismiss, the fact that not all players want to be a tank or healer. Two party mechanics that are required.

Not all players wanted to mass AOE but that didn't stop them from giving every single class some sort of AOE even if it is negligible.

If they listened to someone complaining about not getting a hunter pet at level 1.... /head in hands /heavy sigh... when it takes no time to grind to 10 then surely they could listen to those who are screaming for CC. Whoever that might be. /shrug

The problem is that once you start to build content around the assumption that there is [A TANK] in the party, then that [TANK] has to be there. That might seem like common sense, but remember that not every class can (Insert HEALER abilities here).

The problem is that once you start to build content around the assumption that there is [A HEALER] in the party, then that [HEALER] has to be there. That might seem like common sense, but remember that not every class can (Insert HEALER abilities here).

Starting to catch my drift now?

Yeah no CC content doesn't make sense to me either.

[Bailey09]

I'm just more or less excited about the new flying mount, stuff the huntards!

Everyone has to agree, 2-seater flying mount will be epic!

[Araella]

...

The end result was that heroics ended up being challenging and dynamic for the classes that got to participate, but it led to others being ostricized. DPS Shaman, for instance, were an endangered species in TBC.

I do see and am sympathetic to this - in BC the shaman I knew were always very aware that their presence in a heroic meant that the group was basically down a CC, and unless your group was very well geared, CC wasn't really an option in BC. (They didn't have a threat drop either and lightning overload could mean death).

It just seems to me the more game-saving solution would have been to give some kind of viable CC to classes (at least dps classes) that didn't have it, not take out the actual game strategy all together. Opinions will vary greatly of course, but I for one, looking back at all of this, have found nothing satisfying/fun about AoEing mobs room by room (when there WERE mobs to AoE - later LK instances aren't even big on trash period) and then beating bosses on gimmick mode. 10 > 25 > normal > hard mode, repeat for MONTHS while WAITING for patched content is a horrible pacing mechanic (imo). Yeah, it took my guild FOREVER to get attuned to hyjal, but at least (in general) the pace *depended on the players* and not the next patch date.

I am really hoping they somehow get focus to work. I just keep imagining the rogues who need to kick on Vezax, and ALWAYS having to play like that in any given situation. I LIKE having a CHOICE of abilities at any given time. Maybe I need to concussive shot to slow an add. Maybe I need to taunt one. Maybe I need to MD, put a trap down, disengage to get to or get away from a certain area faster, tranq an add. etc etc. I feel like hunters are going to need to keep their focus bar half full at all times just to be able to fulfill their general functions in a raid (even in the state that raids are in now).

[Conqueror]

w000t my zherva mount is going to be uber duper rare! too bad it looks so sucky.

[Talenarrus]

I hope they make Zhevras tame able

[Kwickslash]

This ability will share a cooldown with Steady Shot.

I wasn't aware it had a cooldown :/

[Vindein]

I've got a question now, I have no idea if its already been brought up, but, will hunters get a NEW ability at 80 since they are removing freezing arrow?

Any ideas? Comments? Concerns?
=D

[Sormer]

Starting to catch my drift now?

I'm not, actually, and I can tell from your tank/healer argument that you're misinterpreting this entirely.

Read this again carefully:

The problem is that once you start to build content around the assumption that there is CC in the party, then that CC has to be there. That might seem like common sense, but remember that not every class can Trap, or Polymorph, or otherwise keep an add out of the fight as long as is necessary. In TBC, a lot of the times two or even all three of your DPS needed to have CC in order to run heroics. Even worse, some heroics required very specific forms of CC (like Priests in Crypts).

The end result was that heroics ended up being challenging and dynamic for the classes that got to participate, but it led to others being ostricized. DPS Shaman, for instance, were an endangered species in TBC.

You somehow misconstrued, "My class lacks an ability and is thus literally incapable," as, "I don't want to because I am a bad player."

Let's say you build a heroic around the assumption that all three of your DPS have CC. What if you play a DPS Warrior? Is it fair to tell a class, "You have three specs but if you want to run heroics you're only allowed to be one of them." Of course not. And it's also a very poor design philosophy. Why bother to have a spec in the game at all if it's not playable through every level of the available content?

It just seems to me the more game-saving solution would have been to give some kind of viable CC to classes (at least dps classes) that didn't have it, not take out the actual game strategy all together. Opinions will vary greatly of course, but I for one, looking back at all of this, have found nothing satisfying/fun about AoEing mobs room by room (when there WERE mobs to AoE - later LK instances aren't even big on trash period) and then beating bosses on gimmick mode. 10 > 25 > normal > hard mode, repeat for MONTHS while WAITING for patched content is a horrible pacing mechanic (imo). Yeah, it took my guild FOREVER to get attuned to hyjal, but at least (in general) the pace *depended on the players* and not the next patch date.

I don't think it's really necessary to give generic CC to every class, and honestly, I think that would be boring and bad for the game overall. My belief is that somewhere between TBC-style encounters and WotLK encounters there can be struck a happy medium where tank survivability and healer mana are still an issue without excluding specs from the game. Make heroic content have enough mobs that live long enough and hit hard enough to require one, maybe two CC's tops depending on tank/healer gear, and get the CC back into raids without going overboard to the point that half the raid's DPS slots are decided through some complicated and exclusive CC matrix that's been mapped out beforehand. Lowering AoE damage across the board might also be a good idea.

[skinminer]

Oke here we go:

With all due respect to certain people that do think that the changes we are getting are perfect or good then you are in my honest opinion either a:

1. Blizzard Poster ( damage reduction gogo )
2. Forum Troll
3. Person that never played a fucking hunter for more then a year with it being your main.

Most of the posters that disagree with the QQ have posted alot of "GENERAL" bullshit. Nothing is said that gives us insight of your knowledge of the hunter class of these posters so go and troll somewhere else or if you're a blizzard poster go and fix our class shit instead of trying to manipulate us because we unlike some aren't blind and are a dieing class and we will only more be so.

Last to be said is that a lot of people i knew rolled a hunter alt and stopped playing it after noting that u have to control a pet and dps in pvp while being slowed continuesly. What I am saying/proving here in my perspective these changes are exactly what these people need to roll a hunter again, bullshit changes that a skillfull hunter doesn't need, which everyone would have become if they just pushed through and learned how to play us.

[Porra]

I think its hilarious how everyone thats NOT a Hunter says "OMFG SWEET CHANGES OMG" while everyone that most likely plays a Hunter and is most likely decent and knows things about the class says "wtfblizz4real?"

inb4 "QQ MOAR PLS"

[Jhagadurn]

YOu know, I for one will support the focus move. I think it will make a lot of people quit playing hunters - which is a good thing, because there are a LOT of stupid hunter players. The move to focus will require a lot more planning on the part of the player, in both pve and pvp (although more so in pvp). I like it a lot. And the way the system works, you'll be more able to control your burst/sustained damage and when you need it.

Also, I'm glad to see BM come back as a valid spec. I really hope it's more on par with MM/SV in Cata.

[Miltiadhs]

Yeah, definitely not liking exchanging mana for focus right now....

ow so you prefer to have intelect and you must have to collect gear with other stats that youshouldnt need in the first place(call me intelect)...you sir fail big time

[Luciferka]

ow so you prefer to have intelect and you must have to collect gear with other stats that youshouldnt need in the first place(call me intelect)...you sir fail big time

You must have to? No one forced you to, but u got some benefits, from having the gear, that was designed for hunters(enh shammies), like some bonus AP (cause of the Careful aim talent), larger mana pool and more armor. And dont tell me, u never rolled for a rogue/feral gear..
So, could u please explain us, wheres that big fail?

And as a side note, i like how hunters work at the moment from the PvE perspective of the game. And im really secptic, about focus change.

[Bountyhuntër]

Sounds pretty epic.

[doctour]

Idk if I'm happy with this or not. Camo is a let down, trap launcher should have been in already, and cobra shot (BM gonna be top?). Focus is gonna be a pain to balance out. we don't work like rogues. this might be bad

Come on Blizz, shock us with amazing stuff

[theniffrig]

So when is this going to be available then?

[Bayyne]

lulz are you dumb? apparently it's more economical for a rogue to either A, switch poisons mid-fight to dispell enrage or B, roll with Anesthetic Poison full time than it is for you to regen 35 focus and stop being terrible.

^^^^lulz

truth.
"BUT ROGUES DO SUCH MUCH DAMN DPS ANYWAYZ!!?!?!"
have you seen hunters lately???

taking one shot out of your rotation for a single fight is not something to qq over....

and god, how many fights do we actually have to use it on anyway...

H beasts??? that's about it...
what a whiner