A way to make Frost more raid friendly?

[Kharnn]

Hello, as most players who have a mage character know, frost tends to fall behind in a PvE oriented setting in damage as compared to Fire or Arcane. The problem with fixing this issue;however, is that in buffing frosts damage, frost would become even more dominant PvP wise. However, I have come up with a solution that would ultimately substantially buff frost's damage output while still not affecting a PvP players current Frostbolt system.

A talent could be put deep in the Frost Tree that would completely remove the snare component of Frostbolt but increases the damage done by frostbolt by X% (large percent for PvE viability). Raiders would spec into this because the snare component is not necessary but PvPers would not spec into this talent because the snare component of Frostbolt is largely what makes Frost Mages so hard to get to in PvP situations for a melee. I also understand that the glyph would have to be altered because of this as well though, or the glyph could be made to be much more potent of a damage increase.

Does anyone else think this could work?

[4Elêmentz]

http://www.wowhead.com/item=42742

[Kharnn]

http://www.wowhead.com/item=42742

Did you not read where I said the glyph would have to be changed?

[Guyviroth]

but PvPers would not spec into this talent because the snare component of Frostbolt is largely what makes Frost Mages so hard to get to in PvP situations for a melee.

This never stopped Arcane Mages in PvP, besides having Slow. If the damage is high enough, people would use this talent in PvP to quickly down players, and evenso bosses in AV.

I understand what you're trying to achieve, but people will always find a way around this enough to exploit it.

[Doctadrew]

Frost had its glory in TBC. Blizz will never end up making all three specs the exact same about of dps without completely ruining either PvP or other classes in attempts for balance.

[4Elêmentz]

Did you not read where I said the glyph would have to be changed?

I just linked the glyph, nowhere did I imply anything other then providing a link for future readers of the thread.
Just cus forums usually have unserious posters, doesnt mean that everyone are one of them

[Sephyan]

I didn't see anything here but a rehash of the Frost bolt glyph.

Doing this as you suggest, kills it for many frost mages, who enjoy the snaring effects that frost provides. Granted snare/slow effects have little place in PvE, this is still a component on odd ball encounters.

Hundreds of ideas have been posted for ways that frost could be adjusted. I myself have posted several ideas (all awesome, I can fix the world, who would have thought, Ideas for sure), but the reality is, the development teams has a specific philosophy and use they have set for things in the game.

While things do change over time, if the cry is large enough, they will hear it, but it has to be very large... say a majority of the mage community, and an agreeance with the community as a whole that these changes will not alter the state of a frost pvp mage too much. If you wish to make a movement for it, put your suggestions in the Official suggestions forum, where a Blue might see it.

[Sephyan]

Actually OP, you edited your post, and I don't recall you mentioning originally anything about the glyph. I could be wrong, but regardless, the situation remains the same.

[nerfproof]

The easiest ways to make Frost more viable in a raid situation are these
1) Have the water pet scale with 100% of the mages gear.

2) Change the Deep Freeze glyph to something like "Removes the stun effect from Deep Freeze but lowers the CD by 15 secs." Making Deep Freeze much more usefull.

Just these 2 changes would make Frost Mage dps in raids much higher. It would still fall behind Arcane and Ttw/Fire, but atleast it would be more comparable to other dps classes so that if a mage wanted to raid as Frost, he wouldnt get lol'ed out of a raid.

[Swizzle]

best way to make frost raid friendly? stop talking about it and fucking wait for cataclysm.

[nerfproof]

best way to make frost raid friendly? stop talking about it and fucking wait for cataclysm.

Seriously Swizzle, I get that you think the words Frost and Raiding should never be in the same sentance, but that still doesnt mean all your replies to these threads has to have some asshole comment in response.

[Swizzle]

Seriously Swizzle, I get that you think the words Frost and Raiding should never be in the same sentance, but that still doesnt mean all your replies to these threads has to have some asshole comment in response.

frost is behind every other spec in icc, the last raid of this expansion (outside the ruby sanctum, but that's just ZA 2.0). with beta on the way and a brand new expansion literally around the god damn corner, i don't understand why people are trying to get frost made viable now. our changes preview isn't even posted yet, how bout we hold off till then?

seriously, i've had to wade and flip through about 80,218,126,312,313,184,782,893.4 of these threads per month. at some point, a man has to say, "enough is enough".

FROST WILL NOT BE VIABLE FOR RAIDING THIS EXPANSION. take a breather and wait for the next one. there is nothing here worth discussing that has not been said millions of times already.

[nerfproof]

frost is behind every other spec in icc, the last raid of this expansion (outside the ruby sanctum, but that's just ZA 2.0). with beta on the way and a brand new expansion literally around the god damn corner, i don't understand why people are trying to get frost made viable now. our changes preview isn't even posted yet, how bout we hold off till then?

seriously, i've had to wade and flip through about 80,218,126,312,313,184,782,893.4 of these threads per month. at some point, a man has to say, "enough is enough".

FROST WILL NOT BE VIABLE FOR RAIDING THIS EXPANSION. take a breather and wait for the next one. there is nothing here worth discussing that has not been said millions of times already.

Well first off, people have been wanting Frost to be a viable raid spec much longer than "right now". And secondly yea there have been a ton of threads pertaining to this topic, and even though I dual spec frost and even raid in my 10man as it sometimes, I agree that people need to search the forums for previous threads instead of posting the same thing over and over. But hey guess what, this is a forum where people, for the most part, can post up just about anything they want. But fortunetly for you Swizzle, that doesnt mean you have to respond to all of them, especially in the manner in which you do. Just ignore the next post and move on, there really is no need to be responding to someones post if all ur gonna do is act like a child.

[invader]

sigh frost/arcane is perfectly capable of being a raid spec its not quite in the league of fire or arcane but its pretty damn close especially now Deep Freeze causes awesome crits (i had a 96k crit on twin valkyrs a few weeks back), i use it quite regularly in ICC and still put out "acceptable" dps BUT i do think it needs a slight increase to put it on par with other specs but its still a very useable spec and survivability is great too, also you can put your focus magic on your elemental and with the buffs on your pet too it procs quite often meaning a bit extra dps for you lol.....

[Swizzle]

sigh frost/arcane is perfectly capable of being a raid spec its not quite in the league of fire or arcane but its pretty damn close especially now Deep Freeze causes awesome crits (i had a 96k crit on twin valkyrs a few weeks back), i use it quite regularly in ICC and still put out "acceptable" dps BUT i do think it needs a slight increase to put it on par with other specs but its still a very useable spec and survivability is great too, also you can put your focus magic on your elemental and with the buffs on your pet too it procs quite often meaning a bit extra dps for you lol.....

a 96k crit for an ability that is on a lengthy CD does not mean a spec is viable, especially considering both arcane and fire can reach numbers that high through regular nukes (80k ignites and 100k+ arcane blasts). frost is NOT viable or even acceptable at any level of end game raiding.

[invader]

lol swizzle i like you ;P frost is perfectly acceptable for raiding.. i was just saying you get awesome crits from deep freeze now not only that but frostbolt and free fireball/FFB give pretty tasty dmg lol and again its 10 times more fun than shitty arcane

[Cracka_Bob]

FROST WILL NOT BE VIABLE FOR RAIDING THIS EXPANSION. take a breather and wait for the next one. there is nothing here worth discussing that has not been said millions of times already.

see, heres what people dont understand....

max dps is not the same as viable

we all know and understand that arcane is the highest dps spec for mages.. thats a given...

but frost IS viable because it:

1. does an acceptable amount of dps (note: i said "acceptable" not "max")
2. provides a replenishment for the raid (i know theres lots of classes with replenishment, but assuming someone else dies, you still have an extra replenishment)
3. has great survivability for fights with AoE damage (so what... healers will heal through it right? well with an extra shield, you now take less damage that the healers dont have to heal)
4. has the tools to kite on fights that matter (ok all specs can use frost nova and frostfire bolt, and arcane even has slow, but frost talents increase frostfire bolt damage making it not only a kiting tool, but also a way to keep dpsing esp when combined with brainfreeze procs)

note on number 4: i didnt include frostbolt in the comparison because frost mages glyph for it... some people keep extra glyphs with them, but i dont really wanna get into detail

[Auroro]

swizzle you starting to become elite when it come into Mage spec for raiding.

I think you need to move to a different site like EliteJerk.com.

I do agree with you, Cracka_Bob, with max dps is not the same as viable.

Mages should be viable no matter what spec they go into.

The goal is not to be Max DPS, the goal is to be more viable to the raid.

[hellpyre]

frost isnt really viable if youre in any sort of end game guild unless its for shits and giggles on like the first 4 in icc on normal, being over 1k dps behind fire/arcane viable imo

p.s. about the ops post, how would your talent change anything? if it replaces a glyph, a glyph every frost mage uses anyways, how will it magically make frost more viable? if you make the glyph increase frostbolt dmg, you make frost pvp even stronger, and the only thing that will haoppen if we get a stronger frost tree is more qq from all melee classes, and more qq means more chance of a nerf to our pvp tree

imo be content with 2 raid specs and one of the strongest pvp trees out there right now, cuz complaining at this point is useless with cata so close

[Balias]

seriously. enough of these topics. frost is even more boring then arcane to play. so enough, pleasE?