Possible burst problems?

[Pendergrass]

I was wondering about this:

Unleash Weapon (level 81): Unleashes the power of your weapon enchants for additional effects (see below). A dual-wielding Enhancement shaman will activate the effects of both of their weapon enchants. Instant cast. 30-yard range. 15-second cooldown. Undispellable.

Here are a few examples of effects we're considering for this ability:

•Windfury Weapon – Hurls a spectral version of your weapon at a target, dealing 50% weapon damage and increasing the shaman's Haste for the next five swings.
•Flametongue Weapon – Deals instant Fire damage and buffs the shaman's next Fire attack by 20%.
•Earthliving Weapon – Heals the target slightly and buffs the shaman's next healing spell by 20%.

Will the effect trigger a GCD? (Wouldn't that make it a DPS loss?)

If the effect does not trigger a GCD, won't that put a big spike in LvB burst? (On the order of 2-4K)?

Not that I dislike a DPS increase (if it is that), it just seems to be the wrong direction for Elemental. First, because it (seems to) increase burst. Second, because it is unoriginal (there are quite a few 10%-ish boosts already for Elemental). Third, the autocrit on LvB makes for a boost effect on LvB; adding more seems overdone.

Looking overall at the current Elemental talent tree, there are so so many effects that are simple % boosts to one or another spell. I hadn't quite realized how many, since I'd settled on my PVE spec quite a while ago, but there is very little that does anything interesting.

Here is hoping for lots more interesting talents in Cataclysm.

Thx!

Patience, and Peace,

Pendergrass

[Vargarii]

(there are quite a few 10%-ish boosts already for Elemental).

Keep in mind many % boost type talents will be disappearing in Cata.

[Pendergrass]

Keep in mind many % boost type talents will be disappearing in Cata.

Yup,

But,

Doesn't adding one back in seem contrary to the trend?

Also, why add this at 81'st level? Unleash weapon seems rather fundamental, and more appropriate at a lower level. Using up one of the new spell slots this way seems to shortchange elemental.

Thx!

Patience, and Peace,

Pendergrass

[Kissmyhammer]

I see this as an "instead of passive effects" spell.

With this we need to care if our next LvB is gonna hit lots harder, or if we are gonna use it sometime else.

I belive this will be on the GCD without doubt, and that this will hit quite hard itself. Instead of just having a rotation - say FS LvB and then LB x A LOT then now we are gonna have another spell that is "needed" or is prefered above the LB spam.

I think that reducing the passive bonus on spells and then returning it as a active spell with more than one effect is quite nice !

[Pendergrass]

I agree that moving to an active effect is nice.

But, this replicates the 20% bonus that T9 used to provide.

That was removed because it was too bursty (and too good).

Assuming that this is DPS neutral, regardless of whether this is on the GCD, the only way to achieve that would be to reduce overall DPS by a small amount to compensate. Reducing overall damage while boosting the hardest hitting spell is increasing burst.

Which I though was a problem, for Elemental.

Edit: I can see how dev was sensing outrage from the shammy community because of the snafu over the T8-T10 set bonuses, and is salving that by providing the bonus back. But, if the reasoning for removing the T9 bonus was correct, then that reasoning should apply to this effect.

Thx!

Patience, and Peace,

Pendergrass

[Hendrixstorm]

Remeber, the biggest thing about burst in cata is they are huge buffing health pools, burst is just hitting hard when you have enough health to withstand it.

[Pendergrass]

Remeber, the biggest thing about burst in cata is they are huge buffing health pools, burst is just hitting hard when you have enough health to withstand it.

Hi,

Agreed, with a large health pool, burst evens out.

This could turn into a nice PVP closer, where you need an extra push to overcome a steady stream of heals. And useful for single target add kills in PVE, e.g., bone spikes and burning skeletons.

Thx!

Patience, and Peace,

Pendergrass

[Ravasha]

Keep in mind many % boost type talents will be disappearing in Cata.

This might not matter much, as you might get more Mastery +% than how much the talents are together now.

[bertugolu]

Unleash Weapon (level 81): Unleashes the power of your weapon enchants for additional effects (see below). A dual-wielding Enhancement shaman will activate the effects of both of their weapon enchants. .

It seems you are missing that. Its for enh shamans, not elemental

[Blackpowder]

Unleash Weapon (level 81): Unleashes the power of your weapon enchants for additional effects (see below). A dual-wielding Enhancement shaman will activate the effects of both of their weapon enchants. .

It seems you are missing that. Its for enh shamans, not elemental

Sure it might be aimed for enhancement shammys, but imagine an elemental shaman dual wielding and has imbued flametongue weapon on both and then activates unleash weapon...instant 30K LvB 8)

Forgot to mention to the OP...i really think ele shammys need a buff and this seems right if ele shammys can incorporate unleash weapon into their rotation.

[TheTieThatBinds]

Hey OP, you seem to have started playing in BC.

Back in vanilla, the alliance hated us because that was what our DPS side of our class was about, the burst. We were ruled by RnG though, with WF as an example, out spells were built around burst. Since lvl 1, we have only gotten 1 new spell to put into our base rotation, and that was LvB. That alone should tell you that they want us to be built around burst.

ATM, LvB isnt very bursty since our LBs are around the same damage as it is. We are balanced for steady DPS and not burst right now. With the combo of our talent to increase our SP by 10% and Flametongue's unleashed weapon, we will have a pretty good buff to our damage. And also, depending on what the school they put Earthquake in, you could use Flametongue's Unleashed ability to do even more burst by timing them right you could have them hit at the same time and both benefit.

We can only wait and see!

[Jonisawsom]

Unleash Weapon (level 81): Unleashes the power of your weapon enchants for additional effects (see below). A dual-wielding Enhancement shaman will activate the effects of both of their weapon enchants. .

It seems you are missing that. Its for enh shamans, not elemental

It does not say it is only for Enhance, it just says that they will be able to get BOTH of the effects from their weapon enchants instead of just one of them.


@Blackpowder:
I didn't read anything about the effects stacking. That double FT might not work or might have to be talented somewhere in Enhance. It may also be a big loss not speccing the full amount of talent points into your main tree for the full mastery bonus (which is 55 I believe).

As far as the overall question, we really just don't have enough info yet to know how much burst this will be.

[Blackpowder]

It does not say it is only for Enhance, it just says that they will be able to get BOTH of the effects from their weapon enchants instead of just one of them.


@Blackpowder:
I didn't read anything about the effects stacking. That double FT might not work or might have to be talented somewhere in Enhance. It may also be a big loss not speccing the full amount of talent points into your main tree for the full mastery bonus (which is 55 I believe).

As far as the overall question, we really just don't have enough info yet to know how much burst this will be.

maybe ur right brah...it says that Enhancement shammys will...i though they meant just shammys in general..oh well..it's still burst to LvB ..

[JoshuaIan]

Patience, and Peace,

As in patience to wait till even just the beta before worrying about your classes dps? Yes, please.

[whowherewhat?]

(there are quite a few 10%-ish boosts already for Elemental).

I'm having issues wrapping my head around this statement...what boosts do we have other than EM (15% haste) and elemental oath (10% while clearcasting)?

[Xylense]

I'm having issues wrapping my head around this statement...what boosts do we have other than EM (15% haste) and elemental oath (10% while clearcasting)?

Concussion, Lava flows, Call of Flame, and glyph of lava all increase Lava Burst's damage passively by either straight Damage done, or an added % of spell power.

[Solecoor]

It's pretty clear this ability has 2 uses for elemental, depending on the initial damage done itself.

Scenario 1, high initial damage:

The spell has a reasonable initial damage, at least competitive with a chain lightning, and buffing the next lava burst you do by 20% (Remembering PvP burst will be almost non-existent in Cataclysm).

Scenario 2, low initial damage:

The only use I can see for this, is when you have to move and spiritwalkers' grace is on cooldown. Use the spell while moving for a small amount of initial damage, and regain some of the lost damage from moving on your next lava burst.


Pretty simple :P

[Blackpowder]

It's pretty clear this ability has 2 uses for elemental, depending on the initial damage done itself.

Scenario 1, high initial damage:

The spell has a reasonable initial damage, at least competitive with a chain lightning, and buffing the next lava burst you do by 20% (Remembering PvP burst will be almost non-existent in Cataclysm).

Scenario 2, low initial damage:

The only use I can see for this, is when you have to move and spiritwalkers' grace is on cooldown. Use the spell while moving for a small amount of initial damage, and regain some of the lost damage from moving on your next lava burst.


Pretty simple :P

explain y plox :S

[Solecoor]

Less dps stats on gear = free budget for more stamina. If you actually read and keep track of things, you'd of seen it mentioned countless times by Ghostcrawler.

[Hendrixstorm]

explain y plox :S

Remeber, the biggest thing about burst in cata is they are huge buffing health pools, burst is just hitting hard when you have enough health to withstand it.

Done and done.