Will Cata bring Beast Mastery back?

[Fetacheese]

"Bringing it back" means making it the top dps spec.

I'm sure that very few people want to be forced to play an absolutely faceroll spec in order to maximize their damage. The more difficult specs should always result in higher damage. (It is impossible to make all three equal)

I would hate for cata to be like pre 3.0.8 BM playing in PVE, everyone would get bored easily, and there would be complaints similar to this one, like, ZOMG BRING MARKS BACK.

[snowblind]

While I agree with your sentiment (I'm dual spec'd BM and MM... have Loque and Skoll in my stable), I'm pretty sure that BM will always be the worst of the three specs. They've said time and time again that they don't even really know how to buff BM in PvE.

It's the hunter spec that takes the least input from the player. Send pet, Arcane shot on cooldown, spam Steady (Cobra in Cataclysm).

Buffing the pet too much means that your high-damage, long duration, controllable DoT is too much of your DPS and losing it is potentially catastrophic for your damage output, not to mention PvP implications. Buffing the player too much risks unbalancing PvP.

I know they say they want it to be competitive, but I don't know how it could be. I don't think Cobra Shot will help that much, as it's still a very simplistic spec to play, and a good bit of damage comes from something that requires very little in the way of attention.

[Saintety]

I clearly do not want BM to become better than MM or SV and i doubt such a thing will happen. However, i think it would b kinda cool to have BM dps a bit closer to MM and SV.

Say for example, they could have 2 active pets at all time (1 would be the main and the other would be off). Think of it as dual wield, MH weapon does more damage than OH weapon and with talent u can increase OH damage. That way even if 1 pet dies the other is alive and is now considered main pet) and the hunter can keep a decent amount of dps

[Cyph3r]

I clearly do not want BM to become better than MM or SV and i doubt such a thing will happen. However, i think it would b kinda cool to have BM dps a bit closer to MM and SV.

Say for example, they could have 2 active pets at all time (1 would be the main and the other would be off). Think of it as dual wield, MH weapon does more damage than OH weapon and with talent u can increase OH damage. That way even if 1 pet dies the other is alive and is now considered main pet) and the hunter can keep a decent amount of dps

Right after someone points out how much of a liability it is for a bm hunter to lose their pet you would suggest doubling that liability? In what world is that a good idea? We'll never have 2 pets, nor should we want it, it's a terrible idea. Stop it!

@snowblind: They know exactly how to buff BM in pve, they're more concerned that if they do it's all anyone would play because it's so simple. There's dozens of ways to bring up BM's dps, some very simple and others complex.

My expectation (and hope) is that whatever they're doing with BM's talent trees and cobra shot introduces a little complexity to the tree. Yes pets need to be powerful, that's the theme, but we need more interaction with them. MM and SV have unique mechanics in the form of chimera shot, wild quiver, lock and load, etc. BM has what, bestial wrath? Granted it's an awesome ability but there's still no skill involved. Use it when off CD, boosts damage. No brainer. The tree needs SOMETHING... I just hope it gets it.

[deadman80]

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes... If what you meant was "will BM be viewed as a raid-viable spec by non-hunters so it will be acceptable to do non-solo activities as BM?"

It seems to me that Blizz has made it pretty clear that they want all 3 of our specs to be "raid viable" which means they bring comparable DPS and/or utility to the table. Something that I've been thinking about is the Haste Mastery that BM will get.. It seems to me that BM will end up being the king of focus regen (MM gets ArPen, SV gets elemental damage) so BM will get more shots out than the other specs. They may not put up OMGWTF kinda numbers individually, but the extra shots from native haste will end up balancing that out over the long run vs our other specs.

Blizz has stated that they are going to normalize pet dps as well, and they are shifting the pet focus to utility by increasing the number of debuffs they can reproduce. I imagine that we will find that hunter pets will be able to copy every debuff from every class at a reduced effectiveness. Fixing stuff like wolves' Ferocious Howl is a lot simpler problem than most players make it out to be, since all they have to do is tweak the amount of AP it gives to balance it against other DPS pet abilities so they end up providing the same dps boost. They are trying hard to eliminate the case of one pet family towering over others to the point where there is basically no choice allowed for most raiders. (I got to bring out my wasp a few times in ICC recently due to lacking a druid for FF and the raid dps increase greatly justified my personal dps loss. With the new way that Blizz is telling us pets will be, that sacrifice will not be there.)

I am still hoping that BM will get more buttons to press that are BM exclusive tho XD Currently, isn't the only BM exclusive BW? Cobra Shot will not fill this niche since all specs get it. It will have BM exclusive talents that prop CS up to make it a no brainer vs Steady Shot, but I'm still hoping for more.

^^;; We should all keep in mind that this is allllllllllll useless speculation until we have more info. Every spec will have 15+ talent points freed up from the removal of "non-fun" static dps buffs that will be available to spread around to new (hopefully nifty) talents.

[Dethric]

Something that would make BM more fun would to decrease the automatic pet damage and give the pet 3-4 abilities that you have to use with your own abilities (for example something that gets activated after a steady shot and can't be put on auto)

Problem with BM is that you can't just buff the pet damage, because then it would be "lawls, i just spam steady shot while my pet does all the job", which is no fun at all.

[Rabian]

Blizzard has stated they wish to de-emphasize passive damage (cough, enh shammies and rogues, cough cough) and make it more about yellow hits. Pets would fall under the passive category, so it seems logical that BM in Cata will take more effort to play than it currently does. As some have stated, the spec badly needs a new unique spell, but I think the poster above me brought up an excellent idea about giving the pet abilities you have to use with your own. Currently pets in WoW are like this...send em in...put all their spells/attacks on auto cast...forget about it unless it needs heals. Having spells that the hunter controls manually would make BM actually take skill and if Blizz scaled the dmg properly, could potentially close the dps gap between BM and the other 2 specs. For instance, a BM talent like "your cobra shots have a 50% chance to allow your pet the use of <insert high dmg ability>" and have a similar talent for arcane shot. Or something along these lines.

[Maleficious]

I also thought that BM will be back when I saw the new skills.It wont be too bad, having a bit of diffrence is always good though MM will always be my favourite spec.

[slevnkalevra]

It will probably be back for the first month or two as Blizzard will overcompensate due to its lack of presence in WOTLK, but I predict there will be a lot of crying that BM is OP in PVP. This will then result in a nerf knocking BM down below raid viability in comparison to survival and marks.

Basically Arena PVP ruins things.

Its why we cant have nice things.... :-[

[Cyph3r]

Blizzard has stated they wish to de-emphasize passive damage (cough, enh shammies and rogues, cough cough) and make it more about yellow hits. Pets would fall under the passive category, so it seems logical that BM in Cata will take more effort to play than it currently does...

I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head. The main reason that BM never got brought back up to the numbers that the other 2 are capable of is because it is so easy to play, and if it was capable of producing the same numbers as SV the vast majority of raiding hunters would spec it. Granted, most of us are specced MM currently, but that's because the damage is so much higher in top end gear.

The ideal situation, and the one Blizz is trying for, is for all 3 specs to be neck and neck in damage, but have distinctly different playstyles/tools. This would finally allow us to raid in whatever spec we want without feeling like we're hurting the raid. I truly hope they can pull it off.

Edit:

It will probably be back for the first month or two as Blizzard will overcompensate due to its lack of presence in WOTLK, but I predict there will be a lot of crying that BM is OP in PVP. This will then result in a nerf knocking BM down below raid viability in comparison to survival and marks.

Basically Arena PVP ruins things.

Its why we cant have nice things.... :-[

You're basing this prediction off of nothing though. Blizzard is trying to deliver a solid play experience to as many people as possible, not cater to the whiners. They don't nerf/buff because they feel bad that someone's particular class/spec of choice isn't top raid spec or whatever. If they did, THAT would ruin the game. They're not going to intentionally make a spec (bm) overpowered to compensate for the fact that it currently lacks for top end dps.

And what makes you think BM will be OP in PvP compared to anything else at this point? Have you seen the new talent trees already or something? Are we getting some new ability the rest of us haven't heard of?

Don't make assumptions.

[Kranyx]

BM will have talents that makes the new Cobra shot more effective than steady shot to allow them to modify the talent to help in balancing BM compared to others. Cobra is a long enough cast that fluctuating the amount of bonus BM's get from the talent will help improve thier dps without affecting Steady or having no room to improve steady like they already have.

[Novarian]

WTB BM talent that causes your pets auto attacks to have a 3/6/9% chance to allow you to use Kill Shot on the target no matter their health but dealing only 60 or 70% damage.

[Thereign]

honestly, why do we need 3 raiding specs? we already have 2 that can hold their own, and lets be honest- the main reason it is difficult to buff PvE without fuxing PvP.

WTB BM talent that causes your pets auto attacks to have a 3/6/9% chance to allow you to use Kill Shot on the target no matter their health but dealing only 60 or 70% damage.

think of how OP that could be in battlegrounds or arenas. Kranyx has hit the nail on the head though, although if bliz over buffs Cobra, then BM will involve smashing your face on the cobra shot button.

[Cyph3r]

honestly, why do we need 3 raiding specs? we already have 2 that can hold their own, and lets be honest- the main reason it is difficult to buff PvE without fuxing PvP.

Variety. Yeah, we have 2, which is more than some classes, but that doesn't mean the devs should stop trying to make all 3 viable. I like beastmastery. I would raid with it if I could. We should all want the devs to continue to do everything they can to improve this game.

think of how OP that could be in battlegrounds or arenas. Kranyx has hit the nail on the head though, although if bliz over buffs Cobra, then BM will involve smashing your face on the cobra shot button.

How would that be any different that it's current model of smashing your face on the steady shot button?

Beast mastery is going to be quite possibly the easiest spec in the game to balance come Cat, because our mastery bonus is simply "extra pet damage". If damage is low, buff this without fear of it interfering with rotations and such. If damage is too high, nerf this without fear of interfering with rotations and such. And I think the fact that our other mastery bonus is haste, and assuming we keep our current model of already having much higher haste than the other 2 specs thanks to talents, BM hunters will never want for focus. That means we'll be able to fire the few instant shots we have WAY more often than the others. This means mobility, and mobility is nice.

[sirrk]

with the mastery system and all 3 specs having a unique shot (cobra, cs, es this order) its about prety simple or at least way simpler then ever to balances each and every spec around pve (if they want to!).

dm sux pve? cobra fix. sux allover? mastery fix.... realy there is about little room to mess things up, atleast without later tiers scaling wich can easily be fixed through mastery.

i love blizz, things are going to be awsome i promise!

[Druloq]

I don't care if BM is viable, but if its the top dps for hunters through out Cata, then I will retire my hunter. Bm is lame.

Couldn't agree more, I'd sooner reroll than go BM for high end raiding. I was lucky enough to be the expose weakness buffer in TBC so I never had to endure BM raiding. It can stay where it is as a levelling/solo/lame pvp setup spec for all I care.

[Armantor]

Something that would make BM more fun would to decrease the automatic pet damage and give the pet 3-4 abilities that you have to use with your own abilities (for example something that gets activated after a steady shot and can't be put on auto)

Problem with BM is that you can't just buff the pet damage, because then it would be "lawls, i just spam steady shot while my pet does all the job", which is no fun at all.

Blizzard has stated they wish to de-emphasize passive damage (cough, enh shammies and rogues, cough cough) and make it more about yellow hits. Pets would fall under the passive category, so it seems logical that BM in Cata will take more effort to play than it currently does. As some have stated, the spec badly needs a new unique spell, but I think the poster above me brought up an excellent idea about giving the pet abilities you have to use with your own. Currently pets in WoW are like this...send em in...put all their spells/attacks on auto cast...forget about it unless it needs heals. Having spells that the hunter controls manually would make BM actually take skill and if Blizz scaled the dmg properly, could potentially close the dps gap between BM and the other 2 specs. For instance, a BM talent like "your cobra shots have a 50% chance to allow your pet the use of <insert high dmg ability>" and have a similar talent for arcane shot. Or something along these lines.

I liked this a lot. If the pet could only do auto attack, the hunter could use its own GCDs to use the pets powers. With this he would need the manage 2 focus bars, the ones used by him and the ones used by his pet. The pet's habilities damage could be buffed, because it wouldn't be a passive damage, but damage from power used by the hunter's decision and resources (GCDs).

MM and survs wouldn't use this powers unless they're without focus and moving (when can't use steady, giving them something to do while oom and running in pvp), but BMs could have the pet's powers buffed in the tree, giving them more button to press and decisions to make.

[Cyph3r]

I don't think we'll see anything quite that complex, but I definitely expect more pet interaction during fights, something other than bestial wrath and mend pet. It's always seemed to me that being a "master of beasts" should mean more than just stronger pets. It SHOULD mean higher synergy with pets. The hunter and the pet should work more as a team, than master and servant.

I don't know exactly how this would manifest in game mechanics but it should involve us having to take steps to provide opportunities and advantages to our pets, as well as their actions opening up opportunities for us. There's many pet abilities that already embody this, like intercept, roar of recovery, and call of the wild (that brings up a new question, will roar of recovery grant us a temp focus boost in Cat?). Now they just need to work in some new hunter stuff that provides more of a back and forth.

[rawr64]

of course its coming back, because blizzard has this stupid philosophy (that only benefits them and their profits) where they go back and reinvent the wheel every 6 months. mixing things up in these short iterations is what they do to keep people like you playing, so i see no reason why bm wont get buffed through the roof and the class is reinvented once again.

what confuses me is why blizzard doesnt tap into the bm tree to give players a new level of control through pets that everyone clearly wants. perhaps to cover up the fact that the survival tree is actually less about survival and more about elemental damage, as i switch between bm and survival pretty regularly, i find the bm tree a little more beneficial to actually 'surviving' than the survival tree.

my only real concern regarding the new changes to bm was how they handle camo with pets, unless i missed this noted somewhere, i want to assume that pets receive this cloaking effect as well as the player, else we start getting into talk of dismissing pets or being forced into picking up a cat

[Daginni]

If I were to buff BM, the first thing I would do is give the pet more Kill Command like spells. But make these more useful.... coarse, Kill Command is one of those forgotten spells that are are in a castrandom macro.

Jeeze, BM is hard to buff. What I would like to see is just the damage being 100 DPS difference between MM and Surv. Sure you will have Min/Maxers who would still not even touch it with a 100 DPS difference. But it would mean those who don't truely care about every DPS would play it.