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  1. #1

    The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    i dont know.....i was destroyed by the Cataclysm notes concerning resto druids. ive been searching countless posts only to find that many (long time) druids feel the same about losing Tol form. Aside from being vastly disappointed with the changes, i actually thought losing tree form was acceptable. i pvp a lot, and in my opinion switching back and forth to tree to heal and cast MF and IS, can try a druids patience very quickly. But as I finished reading, i felt deeply disturbed with all the imortant information left out by blizzard. As well as all the seemingly backwards explanations as to why the changes were made.

    To me, Blizzard could’ve explored countless paths when they decided to "mess" with resto druids (to put it lightly). Being able to cast select balance spells in tree form would have been awesome (please give me feedback on this!) . We loved tree form, and the (rather small statistically) resto druid community just wanted new artwork for tree form. And for the longest time , we have asked over and over to be able to cast some (not all, that’s OP) spells in tree form. All we were missing was a CD ability, now having tree form become that cooldown doesn’t sound right as many times I say it in my head. All druids know that depending on what your spe’ed as for you may have missing slots when your in tree form (im not including cc abilities, warstomp, poisons, pvp stuff etc). Wouldn’t be more logical if trees got a nice cooldown while still in tree form, or only in tree form to increase healing abilities, healing output, damage done from moonfire anything!! It seems that, 1. Your making these changes solely to please new customers for Cataclysm 2. Your making something that is a signature druid ability, into a warlock like ability that they themselves don’t like.

    but no....they decided to completely change a DEFINING aspect of the class into a CD. now as awesome as that change sounds. They completely leave us in the dark about all our armor, health, healing, and stat bonuses when we shift to tree form. Also, about the future play-style of both resto PvP and PvE. I mean.. I got a VERY clear picture of what they wanted to do to boomkin. And if bli$$ didn’t already put a bad taste in my mouth I would still be spec’ed balance. Nevertheless they made the changes, and adds to balance very clear. Actually, going as far as to give players some good insight on the different solar and lunar "cast bars" (or whatever your calling it). I mean its sad enough that bli$$ard gave druids two inadequate pvp trees (feral,balance). Only to fix small problems, ferals have been crying for since BC and finally fix a whole spec which was flawed from the beginning (moonkin). It practically held no viability in pve, and is currently still a joke in pvp. And again Bli$$ is only fixing these obvious changes now in Cataclysm, hmm…

    With Resto's you basically say, “here..you get nothing really new. Oh, and.. yea, and were gonna completely change around tree form WTF... then you don’t even go in-depth about the changes AT ALL. listen i dont care about the Look of tol form. And if your going to make it on CD anyway, Why Bother Revamping It! This could be a crazy buff to Resto's actually. I just wouldn’t know it yet, from the sparse information Bli$$ gave us. it doesn’t take a genius to look at the ToL talent, read it, and wonder, Gee..I wonder How making ToL on CD a good thing. When I first tried to post this I was banned from the forums for a day because of the caps, so they say. I was online last night and was amazed at the wow.com interview. He went on and on about balancing the druid class, and trivial matters like players not being able to see gear. Any self respecting druid will tell you all that information was clearly laid out to them when they choose a shape shifting class. He then had the audacity to mention some dumb poll, that was flawed anyway, 2 of the questions were essentially the same to begin with. It was right there I realized that Bli$$ is just a business just like McDonalds or Burger King. And all I was thinking was “wow, so is it eventually going to happen moonkin?” I could imagine it.
    “Well many people didn’t even like the look of moonkin form to be honest. We figured that although moonkin form gave the druid calss flavor, that all it contributed to balance spells, flavor.”” The super massive wave of new worgen druid customers demanded the end of moonkin form, and the ability to cast in caster form exclusively.””After some brainstorming (and a meeting with the sales dept.) We decided that, you know what they’re right.” “Enter balancing the druid class rhetoric here . I mean it’s the mirror spell in the balance spec, what’s up with that they could’ve done away with it also (annoyed sarcasm).
    Hey, if it turns out that caster form will be innately buffed with the same Tol form stats, mana reductions, and healing bonuses, then that’s fine by me. But that’s really, the only way I would be able to live with these changes. If druids will finally get the little op stint without nerfs that would be refreshing in a world of burst damage which im sure cat will become. When everything is said and done, if our heals are downgraded, if my armor isn’t buffed the same, and if we don’t have any defensive resto spells, this is gonna be really bad. Im aware of the buffs to all Hots and Dots but, this is a general buff which will affect everyone. Never said they had something special for us. I mean if they make us as nice as the vanilla days that would be nice but I think they favor pallies to much for that.
    I know very well that it will not compensate for missing our ToL form. and the CRAZY part is that I’m pretty damn sure there will be absolutely no other class wanting more information about what the heck happened to their class, and their specs. i mean the most beneficial thing resto's got was a MUCH NEEDED update to regrowth. I really don’t care about now having any new healing spells, but damn man..... still no form of shield, no RELIABLE stun (we miss so many bashes in bear form while specced resto BTW). I mean the mushrooms are nice but you said its primarily for balance, unless there will be a glyphed version, I see it at a VERY MILD pvp effective spell.
    so please blizzard take some time from the epic paladin post and just fill us druids in. may not make a difference to you but it will make or break the future of this account.

    P.S. Besides the new druid (10/25 icc) gear which is lackluster (IMO dont kill me) compared to other classes. and being that im forced to keep some t10 I really don’t want to see my gear and a lot of other (full time) druids feel the same way I do (well horde anyway). Why this would be such a BIG factor as to why ToL form is "no more" is completely beyond me.
    P.P.S this post is not to talk about how "cool, Awesome" Wild Mushroom is. Because it is not, and it is not what this post is entitled. id appreciate if experienced resto druids (primarily in PVP) give me good feedback. if you think im wrong, or right, I dont care, just please be mature about it.

  2. #2

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Here's my druid background:

    I started playing druid shortly after release and haven't looked back since. I was resto all through Vanilla and in a cutting edge progression guild. We had several server firsts, but broke up shortly after BC was announced/Naxx was released. I didn't really get into why, I was pissed and quit for awhile.

    I came back to the game as feral, mostly to level up. I joined a much more casual guild with RL friends that brought me back to the game and I was mostly a tank. The guild was much too casual for me, so I began playing arena with my roommate and his brother during season 2. I played resto (obviously) and got pretty high (barely missed gladiator). It was mostly resto and some tanking when the itch came.

    WoTLK came around. I had planned on being feral due to the great buffs for pvp, but I got into the hardcore raiding scene again and they needed a non-retarded Balance druid, so I got in, got totally geared up in a couple weeks, and was one of the top dps for a long time. For whatever reason, we stopped doing 25 man progression due to people not playing over summer, so I took a break myself, bought a house, started a new job and recently came back a couple weeks ago as balance and resto for heroics/some raiding.

    So, hopefully that gives me pretty good background on every aspect of druids and where we've been/where we're going. I feel like WotLK arena was more of a joke than BC arena, though that could be debated. I personally prefer the longer, thinking, moving, adjusting strategy to the OMGBURSTDAMAGE strategy from this expansion. Now, I also feel like Blizzard is looking to go back more into that direction as well from some of their posts, so this could be a way to balance that out.

    They mentioned arena is going to be a happy mix (hopefully) of outlasting and strategic bursting. Taking away tree of life form will allow us to cast more offensive and defensive spells without having to go back into tree form to make sure we don't die instantly. We have a ton of mobility, so that's a trade off for being squishy when caught. Tree of Life form will, without any doubt in my mind, buff your survivability as well as your healing. I could see a super thorns ability or something activate with the spell, so melee will most likely have to decide if the extra damage they will be taking is worth trying to burn you down or not. We're pretty good against casters right now, given we're not caught in a fear and can stay LoS. This, to me, is a way to give us options against a melee zerg.

    I don't think resto is going to die with the expansion. Keep in mind it's still early and many changes will no doubt take place. Given the fact that we have a ton of instant heals, an undispellable cc (for now), and tons of mobility, all we really lack is a burst healing cooldown that lasts more than 1 heal. I think we're getting that and I expect a lot of QQ to ensue.

  3. #3

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Having played a druid for 4 years now, I wouldnt say the defining aspect of the spec is TOL. Maybe it was on Wotlk, but definetly not in the entire life of wow.

    Pvp-wise. Tol wanst even a viable spec in TBC, tol used to move at 50% speed, had no extra armor and would only be allowed to cast hots (at reduced mana).

    This change (in pvp scenarios) is not a nerf at all, the only thing i can think of that is kind of "nerfy" is the fact that restos will be able to get sapped in an arena. But being honest, running out of the gates transformed into a tree screaming LOL at the rogues wasnt exactly balanced, so its more a balance than a nerf. The ToL cooldown will be awesome I have no doubt, every class will be wtf trying to kill a druid or his teammates while the ToL cooldown lasts.

    Druids are not dead nor will they die. What defines druids (in pvp), is Hots and CC. That you would know if you played for more than one xpac. Changes are necessary for the game (and the classes) to keep alive, thats what WoW is about from my experience.
    When WotlK came out (or the pre wotlk event where the changes were put live) druids where all shaky too, ToL was now mandatory and feral charge was not viable. As i said, is resistance to change what lowers your hype.

    I hope I could disagree with you without being too immature. Keep loving your druid, is the most awesome, versatile and variable class in the game, and it will still be.

  4. #4

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Take a look on the bright side.
    Any decently specced feral druid will be a passable tank. Rogues are going to love trying to gear up in a druid-heavy server/guild.

  5. #5

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    You don't look like a tree. Welcome to actually having a different look from all the Druids who heal. Its bad enough they are all Bears and Kittys and What is now called Boomkins.

    Seriously. Don't be upset. You just not going to be able to stay in TOL. It doesn't mean your healing is going to hurt terribly. It justs means when you do use tol you'll Do MORE then usual.
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  6. #6

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    I hope it will be the end, you were ridicoulsy OP over all Wotlk, immortal in PvP and just destryoing in aoe healing in Pve, add rebirth on short CD and you are just gods. Now it's time to pay the price.

  7. #7

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    they did say they might introduce a glyph to stay in tree form visually

  8. #8

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    lets try to save all qq till its played in beta. keep in mind its a preview.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire
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    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    can i just say yet again pvp QQ ruining the game for pve

    you know cause look thats just what happened.... yet again

  10. #10

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    All I'm hearing is QQ QQ QQ. LAZERS!

  11. #11

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Did you really need to post this thread four times? Noone cares about your opinion.

  12. #12

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's


    As to casting balance spells in tree form:


    This would essentially nullify the entire point of ToL form. If Blizz allowed some to be cast in tree form, people would ask why others are left out. This would eventually lead to every spell being able to be cast in tree form, and it would eventually become an entirely cosmetic talent. That or some spells would be permanently barred from being cast in tree form, and the current problem would persist. The change is an effort to please people who like the form, and those who would rather go without it. You gain the CD that every Resto druid wants, and you can still see your tree form every now and then.

    As to tree being a defining aspect:


    I'm not sure if you are referring to shape shifting or tree form. Tree form was not introduced until 2.0, and was a topic of great controversy at the time. We had movement reduction, an even greater restriction on spells than now, and it was generally considered a bad form to use for PvP. Shape shifting is a defining part of the druid class, and Blizz has been trying to find ways to make us shift more. Sitting in a single form all fight is not shape shifting. Ferals already do have to shift every now and then, and this CD will be a way to do so for Resto. Moonkin got the shaft on that end, but they got some much needed fixes and some cool ne abilities, so it balances out. Ask many of the veteran moonkins. We love our chicken form, but put it on a CD for burst DPS and we would be ecstatic.

    As to trees getting no new spells:

    The CD will be a new spell, it just doesn't have a name yet. They already stated that Resto doesn't need new spells because we already have a ton that fill a mess of niches. What we do need is a few CD's and extra effects. ToL will be a new Oh shit CD that will probably end up being much better than NS/HT. Efflorescence hasn't been fleshed out yet, so that could be some awesome new effect. I notice that everyone has ignored that part of the resto changes.

    Also, this is a preview. They didn't go into depth about anything. Every class got a preview of some new spells, an idea of the direction they are trying to take, and the mastery bonuses. They can't tell you exactly what ToL will do because they don't know.

    As to seeing gear, Moonkin form "flavor", and new Worgen players:


    Druids have been asking for years to be able to see gear, or see proof of gear, in some way. This is nothing new. There have been propositions for forms to be armored at certain levels of gear, for Druid sets to have bonuses that add flair to our forms, and even yes, calls to allow us to use our abilities and keep our bonuses in caster form (except ferals).

    Veteran moonkin players have been expressing their disappointment that we didn't get the same treatment as ToL. So your sarcastic imagining there is entirely moot. A greater portion of the moonkin community would cheer for an announcement like that (as long as we could still /dance with our CD up).

    As to balancing the class in caster form:


    [...] On live today, druids are balanced around healing in tree form, meaning they give up a lot of utility just to be as good as other healers. When Tree of Life is a cooldown, then you'll be balanced healing in night elf, troll, worgen or tauren form, and then you'll be more powerful when in tree form. The nice thing about cooldowns is the difference can be pretty significant while active.
    Yes, we will be balanced around healing in caster form.

    Cata becoming burst central?:

    That's the exact opposite of what Blizzard intends with Cata. Greater health pools and lowered healing is being bundled with less bursty damage in PvP and PvE.

    The rest of the rant:

    The rest of your post is just a long rant about nothing in particular. I won't criticize any further than that. Blizz cannot design a tier set that everyone will like every time. Every druid I know likes our T10. I know pallies that have felt shafted since after T2. It just happens that people have different ideas about what looks "cool".

    Overall

    A lot of your post just seems to be a rant against things that have either already been answered, or haven't been addressed for any class. Previews are not comprehensive patch notes. The ToL change, no matter how much people rant against it, is a buff for PvP, and could prove valuable in PvE. Some of the ideas floating about the forums are baseless and uninformed. I'mgetting really sick of seeing people talking about "core class mechanic" and the "definition of druid" in reference to ToL. It was not part of the original design mechanic, nor was Moonkin form. They were both added later to spice up the concept of shape shifting for non ferals. Back in Vanilla, druids were shifting constantly in PvP, no matter the spec. In BC that lessened, in WotLK it lessened even more. They want to get back to basics (without the lol factor of speccing anything but Resto).

    Signed,

    Satire of Stormrage (Balance/Resto)

    5 year player, a Druid main since release.

    (nee. Asmodae of Arygos)
    (nee. Asmodae of Argent Dawn)
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    This is a good point... do you have e-bajango or e-boobie competitions in the same way?

    I like that word... e-bajango

  13. #13

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    First, I'll say I don't pvp. So I can't comment on if it would bug me or not.

    For healing though, not being in ToL form all the time is a bonus to me. Sure I would have liked a new updated model, but to me this is the same as now seeing my armor.

    At one time there was no ToL. Then there was a ToL with a 50% slow when in the form. Now it is its current form. I really don't think going back to step one kills the resto druid spec. I'm sure there will be people that switch away from resto because of it, but I hardly believe that is the sole reason. If it was, that persn was already considering switching specs, and this simply put it over the top.


    Honestly the worst thing they could do from my point of view is have that stupid minor glyph. I like the concept of shifting being included in the cooldown. Maybe I'm just reading that wrong and having the wrong assumption though. I'd like to see this 2 min cooldown(or whatever it happens to be), shift me into ToL for 10 seconds or whatever. It is just something more than a random spell effect happening at the start or just another buff icon.


    Reasonable odds if they fix moonkin dps though I'm switching to that anyway. The resto preview to me just made it that it seems not much is changeing, so I won't mind it being my offspec now.

  14. #14

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    You spent two whole expansions being the best healer in the game. I feel no pity for you no matter how badly nerfed you get.
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  15. #15

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Now i might actually roll a druid because i can see my gear while playing instead of the same, unchanging model over and over.

  16. #16

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Quote Originally Posted by Endler89
    can i just say yet again pvp QQ ruining the game for pve

    you know cause look thats just what happened.... yet again
    So baking in all the tree skill buffs into caster for resto, and removing tree form is a nerf. Its nothing in this case, just bBlizzard wanting to put some choice back into using the form, which was their original attempt. Doing PvE healing, I actually like this change a lot, since it gives me a bit more to think about, and means I can stay in caster form now. Which I rather like...

  17. #17

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Again ?
    when tbc hit you all said you'd quit because of becomming a ugly tree and resto's are still here ....

  18. #18
    Fluffy Kitten Myrrar's Avatar
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    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Every single big patch where there has been resto druid changes there have been posts like these.

    And every single time the nurfs either aren't bad, or we change the way we heal and end up even better.

    Stop qqing, stop freaking out over a preview of a change not even in beta yet, months away from being released.

    Good players adapt to their class. Think about it, do you REALLY think Blizz is just going to let resto druids suck? Really? There is a difference between a class having 2-3 dps specs and only one of them being valuable and 1/4 healers being crap. We will be fine. Just like we have ALWAYS been.


    Also, stop saying this is a nurf. It's not. All those things we have in tree are going into talents because tons of useless talents are being removed. So now, instead of not being able to root, or cyclone, or do dmg while having our increased healing and armor, we will have it without tree.

  19. #19

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerseÿ
    lets try to save all qq till its played in beta. keep in mind its a preview.
    Mr. Little, the sky is still where it is. Resto druids will be fine.

  20. #20

    Re: The Druid Cataclysm, Death of Resto's

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnett
    You spent two whole expansions being the best healer in the game. I feel no pity for you no matter how badly nerfed you get.
    Pallies are the best healer in game atm.
    Btw, TOL change is a buff, not a nerf.

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