Id like some advice concerning my Dk tank's current gear and raiding situation

[Korv]

I can't stress enough how much you should ignore everything Desirie has said :S

People like Tulvian and mhp though are right on the money

[Shiira]

If you're a misdirection-tank then good for you, but I'm not.

When did I claim that tanks should rely on misdirection instead of generating their own threat? Way to ignore my point and insult me instead.

Fair enough, you can't miss with Death Grip. But imagine Saurfang, what if you've already used Death grip and Dark Command misses, you're screwed. You just gave your raid an extra mark, especially if you're doing HM.

This situation doesn't exist, rune of blood lasts 20 seconds and the cooldown on death grip is 35. When this is a possibility you can just spec unholy command as I said.

No, you're not a bad tank if you lose aggro, you're just gemming too much stam and your hit-rating is non-existing.
Of course it's another scenario if you're not geared and lose aggro.

Tanks don't lose aggro from not gemming hit unless they're pressing their buttons wrong or outgeared by their dps. Tank threat generation when gearing for full survivability is more than enough in normal situations.

[Zhuldor]

Dark Command Glyph yo?

Runestrike glyph is overshadowed in icc especially with IT buffs and MDs

[mhp]

If you're tanking anything difficult as frost then you're already doing it wrong, and burst threat on the pull are what misdirect, tott and icy touch are for.

Bzzt. Frost is fine, there's nothing wrong with frost tanking "serious" bosses. It works just aswell as blood.

[Frostfel]

The biggest thing i can see wrong with your gear is that you are using several blue stam gems. Replace those with epic ones asap. With the way the game has gone no one is going to take you anywhere without the top of the line enchants/gems/whatever, its just the way it is now. Especially with tanks, we are always seen as having to have the best gear that we can possibly afford for ourselves while everyone else can slack a little. On another note if you still find your health too low and you dont have the frosts to fork over for the Corroded Skeleton Key, then go get the Essence of Gossamer from Heroic Azjol-Nerub from Hadronax. The proc isnt very useful anymore considering how much bosses hit for now, but hey any reduction is a good one, but the really nice bit is the stam that you will get from it, also if you level your jewelcrafting you can also use the Figurine-Monarch Crab, since it gives about as much stam but also 2 sockets and a dodge CD to proc if you need another defensive CD. Best of luck to you though, i see far too many bad DK tanks, its nice to see one that actually cares about not being bad.

[Desirie]

Sorry for destroying your world, but hit and exp are not necessary at all.
If you lose threat, you shouldn't gem hit, but read some guides and stuff

If I lose threat I shouldn't gem hit? If you lose aggro it means that you should be looking after your other stats.

I can't stress enough how much you should ignore everything Desirie has said :S

People like Tulvian and mhp though are right on the money

I'll agree to the fact that Tulvian and mhp are correct.

I also think you're being an idiot, I've said; Give me something to work with instead of just telling everybody to ignore me.

It only proves that you're a tool.

TOOL.

When did I claim that tanks should rely on misdirection instead of generating their own threat? Way to ignore my point and insult me instead.

You never said you are one but by saying that hit is a bad stat and everyone should just gem stamina straight through instead of looking at these stats I'm assuming you are a misdirection-tank.

This situation doesn't exist, rune of blood lasts 20 seconds and the cooldown on death grip is 35. When this is a possibility you can just spec unholy command as I said.

Instead of speccing into unholy command you could simply get Glyph of Dark Command, which I don't need because I have enough hit for it to hit the target. Which also means that I can get another glyph there to increase my threat.

Tanks don't lose aggro from not gemming hit unless they're pressing their buttons wrong or outgeared by their dps. Tank threat generation when gearing for full survivability is more than enough in normal situations.

No, but you do on the other hand lose aggro from missing your target, and considering the GCD you'll have to watch the mob slaughter DPS or healers while you're trying to hit the mob.

[Zkeya]

Having hit/exp near their respective caps is good to have,but not mandatory.Sure,some bosses need tanks to taunt (saurfang/lady deathwhisper/Prof/festergut) but for these fights you could just glyph Dark Command.Not to mention that DG's taunt can't miss so you can use it as an oh shi* taunt..(again I'm not saying that we shouldn't aim for them if we can,personally i have 44k HP along with 265 hit and 30 exp).Speaking about glyphs,glyph of rune strike may have lost some value due to the ICC aura but it's still really nice.Glyphs aren't really expensive( at least on my realm) so you can change between bosses.

I would advice the OP to aim get as much health as he can until he finds a raiding guild.Unfortunately most pugs just judge tanks from their GS and health.It's silly but having some more health may let you stay in a group,even if your threat is somewhat lower.Just keep in kind that health isn't everything and once you find a guild you should focus on getting some more threat stats.Armor is also really awesome for ICC

Also always enchant your gear with the best possible enchants,it means that you care for your gear.Use epic gems too!Also if you can gather some hit/exp pieces so you can use if you need some extra threat,most tanks keep two set of gear anyway(if they have the ability to do so).

PS: I'm not suggesting he should ignore every stat but stamina,just choose health (EH actually) on enchants/gems.

[Shiira]

You never said you are one but by saying that hit is a bad stat and everyone should just gem stamina straight through instead of looking at these stats I'm assuming you are a misdirection-tank.

Well maybe you should stop assuming that others aren't better than you, some of us don't need misdirects or hit gems.

Instead of speccing into unholy command you could simply get Glyph of Dark Command, which I don't need because I have enough hit for it to hit the target. Which also means that I can get another glyph there to increase my threat.

I don't need glyph of dark command because I have death grip, I'd rather sacrifice 10% extra death coil damage for unholy command than sacrifice 15% of it for glyph of dark command.

No, but you do on the other hand lose aggro from missing your target, and considering the GCD you'll have to watch the mob slaughter DPS or healers while you're trying to hit the mob.

If this ever was an issue I could just death grip the boss on the pull, there aren't any situations where I would need it again before the cooldown ended anyway.

It only proves that you're a tool.

TOOL.

Insulting someone because you disagree with them is not a valid way to make a point.

[Desirie]

Well maybe you should stop assuming that others aren't better than you, some of us don't need misdirects or hit gems.

I don't assume that I'm better than everyone, I'm simply sharing my opinions.

Insulting someone because you disagree with them is not a valid way to make a point.

Telling everyone to ignore me isn't a valid way either, but it was done.

[Floreon]

I don't assume that I'm better than everyone, I'm simply sharing my opinions.


Telling everyone to ignore me isn't a valid way either, but it was done.

Please stop responding to this thread, I would personally hate for there to be even more tanks out there thinking that they have to make a point to stack hit and expertise, and that they should be forsaking stamina (and survivability) for stats that don't actually make them better tanks. If you need more threat, be better at your class. If you can't get any better (which I doubt), or if the DPS is just outgearing you by a huge margin, ask for MDs. There really isn't any point where you need to be enchanting 2% threat and gemming hit and gearing specifically for offensive stats as a tank. All of your problems can be solved with MDs and better play, instead of gimping your health pool.

[Ulrac]

Wow, I can't believe this. You're basically telling him to spam Icy touch, which will only lead to it being nerfed quicker. Fair enough, he won't have a problem with threat on single targets when he spams it, but it will also make tanking boring as hell.

Telling people not to use their abilities so they don't get nerfed. Great advice there. Where in that post did he say spam icy touch? he said refresh the diseases with their respective abilities instead of just pestilence.

[Desirie]

Please stop responding to this thread, I would personally hate for there to be even more tanks out there thinking that they have to make a point to stack hit and expertise, and that they should be forsaking stamina (and survivability) for stats that don't actually make them better tanks. If you need more threat, be better at your class. If you can't get any better (which I doubt), or if the DPS is just outgearing you by a huge margin, ask for MDs. There really isn't any point where you need to be enchanting 2% threat and gemming hit and gearing specifically for offensive stats as a tank. All of your problems can be solved with MDs and better play, instead of gimping your health pool.

I never said I need more threat, and I'm not stacking hit-rating and expertise, I'm simply making sure I have a fair amount of it.
I haven't been outaggroed in my current gear, not yet at the very least. I gem and gear as I feel appropriate and I share my experience of it, if my gemming had failed and I would've died/outaggroed I wouldn't have recommended gemming for hit or expertise.

If you need MDs you aren't good at generating threat, and I'm not 'gimping' my health pool, if I were I'm not raiding HM's so it wouldn't have mattered. Good for you if you need MDs to maintain your threat, I don't and I'm fine with that.

And I believe my threat generation makes me a better tank when I am able to make more aggro than our MT and take less damage from the hits I take, compared to our MT. =)

If anyone is leaving this thread it's you my friend.

Telling people not to use their abilities so they don't get nerfed. Great advice there. Where in that post did he say spam icy touch? he said refresh the diseases with their respective abilities instead of just pestilence.

Why the hell would he need to refresh his diseases as often as he implies if he's able to maintain threat by using his normal rotation?

[Mordockk]

very entertaining thread.

but desirie it sounds more like you are just trying to back up the fact that you think your preferance is right rather than actually making a valid point.

Yes, hit and expertise are threat stats. But you shouldn't ever have to gem/chant for threat. Only for META requirements. Just look for the right peices of gear with the allocated stats on them and put stam gems and chants in everything you can.

Stamina isn't everything, but Effective Health is....not avoidance. Notice how lots of gear in ICC have ramped up armor amounts instead of a bunch of dodge and parry? That's because armor contributes to your effective health and the DR on the other stats cripples the demand for them.

hybrid gems are such shit unless you are trying to complete meta requirements. Because our main threat strike rune strike can't be dodged or parried then it makes it less viable to gem for expertise. There's an abundance of tank gear with hit on it, you shouldn't have to gem for it.

theres been alot of useful information shared here for the OP, use it, don't gem hybrid gems like desirie.

[Desirie]

very entertaining thread.

but desirie it sounds more like you are just trying to back up the fact that you think your preferance is right rather than actually making a valid point.

Yes, hit and expertise are threat stats. But you shouldn't ever have to gem/chant for threat. Only for META requirements. Just look for the right peices of gear with the allocated stats on them and put stam gems and chants in everything you can.

Stamina isn't everything, but Effective Health is....not avoidance. Notice how lots of gear in ICC have ramped up armor amounts instead of a bunch of dodge and parry? That's because armor contributes to your effective health and the DR on the other stats cripples the demand for them.

hybrid gems are such shit unless you are trying to complete meta requirements. Because our main threat strike rune strike can't be dodged or parried then it makes it less viable to gem for expertise. There's an abundance of tank gear with hit on it, you shouldn't have to gem for it.

theres been alot of useful information shared here for the OP, use it, don't gem hybrid gems like desirie.

Jesus christ...

Yes, I am trying to point out that I prefer having melee-special cap and a fair amount of expertise, it's not facts, it's preference. However, when someone is telling that I'm wrong when I've tanked 10/12 in ICC10 and 5/12 in ICC25 without any problems I get annoyed. (Our progress sucks, somehow DPS manages to die rather quickly when an ooze explodes, they're told to move, they don't)

I haven't been trying to say that I'm the best or that everything I'm saying is facts, I'm simply trying to point out what I like, and I basically get flamed for it.

I am trying to find correct pieces of gear to get my stats without gemming for it, but temporarily I am forced to gem for it. (Personal preference])


The legs from icc25 have dropped for me several times but I simply passed on them because I'd be dropping incredibly low on expertise.

What about your other attacks, your entire rotation? If you miss you'll have to wait another GCD to use the ability which will mess up your rotation if you have one that's already tight enough as it is when you actually hit.


TL;DR - I prefer my stats in order, not trying to push it onto others as facts, I'm trying to find the correct pieces, however, they won't drop, temporary gemming for my other stats.

[jai151]

Looking back at the thread, you have indeed tried to push your belief that hit and expertise are more important than stamina as gospel when that is simply not true.

You've tried to push out misinformation, got called on it, have had little to no support, and are now trying to backpedal out of it. Call it a wash and let it go.

Hit and expertise have their place. That place is never a gem slot or an enchantment. That place is splash stats from your gear, just like parry.

[Desirie]

Looking back at the thread, you have indeed tried to push your belief that hit and expertise are more important than stamina as gospel when that is simply not true.

You've tried to push out misinformation, got called on it, have had little to no support, and are now trying to backpedal out of it. Call it a wash and let it go.

Hit and expertise have their place. That place is never a gem slot or an enchantment. That place is splash stats from your gear, just like parry.

Have you seen me saying that it's a fact that it's better? no, I haven't said anything like that, if they would've said something that made sense instead of simply bashing me I wouldn't have argued.

I am able to admit I'm wrong if the person isn't acting like I'm completely wrong and is able to say it in a better way then just "ignore Desirie"...

[Wesco]

Desirie your personal exprience vs all the other dk personal exprience.

They all say you don't need to stack hit or whatever, if you really lack hit or expertise, get Cryptmaker, or Glorenzelg Hight Blad of the silverhand

http://www.wowhead.com/item=49919

http://www.wowhead.com/item=50070


Threat as Death Knight is not a problem at all, if you do, you really need to search for more info about it.
and with the icy touch buff, you don't even need to focus on singlet target threat anymore.
I had no problem with threat before buff and now I am even better on threat.

Make all your attacking abilities like this

#showtooltip
/cast abiltiy
/cast !Rune Strike

Will help you alot on your threat
This is coming from a Death Knight 11/12 HC on 10 and 25 ICC.

Enough of off-topic.

Author
You are gettting booted because of lack of enchants, and also because of low hp. enchant your all your gear. it will prolly increase your stamina almost with 100 stamina. Wrist 40+, Legs 50+, Glovee 18+. and try to gem epic gem instead.

Level your proffesion up, Mining will give you a small stamina boost when you hit 400 with it, but is not so good overall.
JC is one of the best you can have, don't know exach how many stamina you gain. is 3x51-3x30 do the math :P


http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...doun&cn=Selmak

[jai151]

Have you seen me saying that it's a fact that it's better? no, I haven't said anything like that, if they would've said something that made sense instead of simply bashing me I wouldn't have argued.

I am able to admit I'm wrong if the person isn't acting like I'm completely wrong and is able to say it in a better way then just "ignore Desirie"...

Right on page one. You are telling people to get that hit/exp cap first and foremost because, and this was my favorite part of your argument by the way, lower end raids won't have hunters and rogues misdirecting you.

Threat is a binary thing. You have it or you don't. Putting out 10 billion TPS is EXACTLY as effective as putting out the second highest tps +1.

EH, on the other hand, only becomes redundant when your health pool multiplied by mitigation is equal to the maximum potential damage of the boss +1.

[dmco]

just delete your DK; and roll a better class
user received a 7 day ban
-Kumduh

[Desirie]

Right on page one. You are telling people to get that hit/exp cap first and foremost because, and this was my favorite part of your argument by the way, lower end raids won't have hunters and rogues misdirecting you.

Threat is a binary thing. You have it or you don't. Putting out 10 billion TPS is EXACTLY as effective as putting out the second highest tps +1.

EH, on the other hand, only becomes redundant when your health pool multiplied by mitigation is equal to the maximum potential damage of the boss +1.

I meant that fewer Hunters and rogues actually MDs and TotT without it being said that they have to.

And why would I be tanking if my TPS only were to be 1 higher than the one beneath me? Half the fun is tearing up the threat-charts...