Why people allways think they know better then the DK?!

[Bikni]

Our 2nd tank in ICC 25 is a Blood dk. He's good at what he does and I'm glad he can pull off tanking in that spec while I am dps'ing in it. Just shows how useful the trees can really be. Breaks my heart that I will have to leave Blood when Cata hits

YEs i totally agree with you, i started late in WoLK playing with the DK, but im really enjoying it, and im finding a new respect for the class and its great the sheer amount of different options you can duel into. Its not that easy to master the rune system (although its also somewhat forgiving) so i understand why blizzard wants to simplify it, when thing get messy its hard to manage all the cds and i still find myself spamming abilities still on cd, but when we get the full grasp of the system its probably one of the greatest classes around, and very strong if are able to fully master it. So on the other hand its also a shame they are changing the rune system which i think works great.

[Shiira]

So on the other hand its also a shame they are changing the rune system which i think works great.

All the cataclysm version of the rune system changes is that it doesn't matter if you don't use runes straight away when they become available. Right now all specs absolutely must put runes back on cooldown within the grace period or they suffer a significant dps loss, this is no longer an issue in cataclysm because runes become functionally similar to an energy bar. If anything the cataclysm rune system is better because you can save up your runes for when you need to burst, that isn't effective now because it's just not practical to leave runes off cooldown.

tldr: the cataclysm rune system is better in terms of gameplay in both pvp and pve because it increases the flexibility of the class significantly.

[hellpyre]

All the cataclysm version of the rune system changes is that it doesn't matter if you don't use runes straight away when they become available. Right now all specs absolutely must put runes back on cooldown within the grace period or they suffer a significant dps loss, this is no longer an issue in cataclysm because runes become functionally similar to an energy bar. If anything the cataclysm rune system is better because you can save up your runes for when you need to burst, that isn't effective now because it's just not practical to leave runes off cooldown.

tldr: the cataclysm rune system is better in terms of gameplay in both pvp and pve because it increases the flexibility of the class significantly.

how does the cata system make runes like energy? not being a dick, im actually wondering lol

ot: one of the best tanks ive run with is a blood dk tank, he runs around speaking not a word of english, yet manages to tank better than most, coordinate with the other tanks, dps harder than some of our carries, and all around kick major ass lol, just /ignore the retards that talk shit, but do remember sometimes, when the stars aline, align?, someone may give you a pointer or 2 worth listening to :P

[brandmansninjan]

I think most of the people complaining are just jealous, since Dks are 55 levels ahead of everyone else at the start.

How do DK's start 55 lvls ahead? You still need to get another character to 55 in order to make a DK.

[Shiira]

how does the cata system make runes like energy? not being a dick, im actually wondering lol

Right now runes are like having six different energy bars at the same time, one for each rune. The problem is that you must use a rune as soon as the "energy bar" is full or your "rune energy generation" will stop until you do, which causes a dps loss. The significant difference about the cataclysm rune system is that it pairs up each rune type into three energy bars of double length.

Lets say a blood dk wants to use heart strike. Ignoring death runes to keep it simple right now he has to blood runes to use it with. The problem is that both of them need to be kept on cooldown the entire time because rune generation doesn't happen when runes are not on cooldown. If he waits 3 seconds after each rune becomes available to use heart strike then he only gets to use it twice every 13 seconds instead of the potential twice every 10 seconds.

This is what the cataclysm system changes. Instead of two blood runes you start off with one blood rune energy bar at 2.0. using heart strike would drop that down to 1.0, would would then begin to regenerate. Using it again when you have 1.5 would drop it down to 0.5, which once again continues to regenerate. Now this is the important part, when that energy bar fills up to 1.0 you can use heart strike again, but you don't have to. It's like having one rune off cooldown, but there is no dps loss from not using it straight away because your rune energy generation is continuing at the same speed as it was before. Right now your rune generation is halved whenever you have one rune of that type available because only the other rune is regenerating and not both, the cataclysm system is different because rune generation continues at the full rate until both are available.

I'm not sure how useful that explanation is going to be to anyone, I have a decent picture of what it's going to be like in my head so I have no idea how well my post actually communicated that idea.
This post gives a reasonably good visual interpretation of the system if you find that more useful.

[hellpyre]

Right now runes are like having six different energy bars at the same time, one for each rune. The problem is that you must use a rune as soon as the "energy bar" is full or your "rune energy generation" will stop until you do, which causes a dps loss. The significant difference about the cataclysm rune system is that it pairs up each rune type into three energy bars of double length.

Lets say a blood dk wants to use heart strike. Ignoring death runes to keep it simple right now he has to blood runes to use it with. The problem is that both of them need to be kept on cooldown the entire time because rune generation doesn't happen when runes are not on cooldown. If he waits 3 seconds after each rune becomes available to use heart strike then he only gets to use it twice every 13 seconds instead of the potential twice every 10 seconds.

This is what the cataclysm system changes. Instead of two blood runes you start off with one blood rune energy bar at 2.0. using heart strike would drop that down to 1.0, would would then begin to regenerate. Using it again when you have 1.5 would drop it down to 0.5, which once again continues to regenerate. Now this is the important part, when that energy bar fills up to 1.0 you can use heart strike again, but you don't have to. It's like having one rune off cooldown, but there is no dps loss from not using it straight away because your rune energy generation is continuing at the same speed as it was before. Right now your rune generation is halved whenever you have one rune of that type available because only the other rune is regenerating and not both, the cataclysm system is different because rune generation continues at the full rate until both are available.

I'm not sure how useful that explanation is going to be to anyone, I have a decent picture of what it's going to be like in my head so I have no idea how well my post actually communicated that idea.
This post gives a reasonably good visual interpretation of the system if you find that more useful.

ah thanks a million man, that makes it pretty clear, at least to me, though i dont get how its gonna work with the death rune conversions we have, will it just make it so that say using bloodstrike once converts the "bar" to death til its completely depleted, or just create some sort of extra barwithin the blood bar representing the death rune... meh i guess ill find out soon enough, catas not that far off, thnx again

[CookieEater]

On FR server, it's same shit : olol you noob blood spec is DPS, not tank , go forst for tanking!

answer : ok mate, go die irl

I had this shit when I was tanking Ramparts... as an 80, I was boosting a friend and some random tagalongs.

[halmeck]

just do ur job..... live the best and f**k the rest. as long as u are happy with your spec and style of play then it really shouldn't matter.
i have topped charts on healing with my DK. that says a lot about a fail group. (blood ofc) there will always be fail groups and DK's are easy targets to point the finger at. just get your frosties or triumphs and roll on brother.... there will be a group/guild that appreciates what you do

[Deleted]

I've never seen or heard of another healer behaving as the OP described.

How can you presume to tell someone else how to play if you're in a PuG? Just do your job! If you're going to fail, you're going to fail regardless of your efforts, so why not do your best. If the healer did not like any aspect of the group, he should have let you know before you even pulled and then left asap.

That said, as I healer I know the following is very possible: the healer could have rapidly running out of mana or having to spend so much attention watching and healing the tank back up from spike damage that they were finding it difficult to heal the dps. So, even if things were moving smoothly from your perspective as a tank, you do not know for sure what strain you were putting on the healer. This is the only neutral realistic thing I can think of - unless the healer decided to leave IRL and made up some random issue so that they did not look bad with the other three people in the group...

[Vicieus]

From what ive seen and healed. Blood DK tanks dont take as much spikey damage IF IF IF theyre well geared. If your starting out taking RAIDS frost will have more mitigation. Blood tanking is fine for 5 mans (especially from the recent buffs). The major problem with undergeared blood tanks in raids is that a 6k heal isnt going to do much when you take huge spike damage of 12k-14k+ hits on a boss. Once youve got the mitigation gear (armor especially) it becomes better than frost, mostly because you go over armor cap with unbreakable armor, and the self heals + mitigation soften the spikey damage taken.

but yeah if the healer refuses to heal you then they shouldn't be healing at all.

[Shiira]

ah thanks a million man, that makes it pretty clear, at least to me, though i dont get how its gonna work with the death rune conversions we have, will it just make it so that say using bloodstrike once converts the "bar" to death til its completely depleted, or just create some sort of extra barwithin the blood bar representing the death rune... meh i guess ill find out soon enough, catas not that far off, thnx again

I don't really know how blizzard plan to work death runes into the new system without either making them awkward or continuing the problems that the rune system has now, but I'm sure they will think of something.

[Nagu]

This happens all the time...
I'm on my warrior, 3 people say 'I'm glad we don't have a DK tank.'
I ask them why, and they say 'Because DK tanks don't hold aggro. I mean, it's not like they're hard, you just drop D&D and you're done.'
So, of course, I had to ask them if they were kidding, to which they replied they weren't... when I told them THEY were the people who made DK tanking hard because they assume D&D gives you ridiculous snap aggro and decide to go all out, they informed me that they tank on their 80 DK's.
So, in part, they're wrong that all DK's are bad. But, they're kind of right that there are terrible DK tanks out there... namely them.
All I can say is, you're better off with another group, not like it'll take more than 3 minutes to get a new group.

[shadet]

I love being told that Frost is the tank spec, it's great when being called a noob that you can laugh at the person saying it.

Last time this happened I linked [Vampiric Blood] and said "Yeah clearly a dps talent" and even then the healer had the nerve to respond with "Yes, it's just there in case a noob dps pulls aggro and needs to survive"

I Lol'd

[Deleted]

This happens all the time...
I'm on my warrior, 3 people say 'I'm glad we don't have a DK tank.'
I ask them why, and they say 'Because DK tanks don't hold aggro. I mean, it's not like they're hard, you just drop D&D and you're done.'
So, of course, I had to ask them if they were kidding, to which they replied they weren't... when I told them THEY were the people who made DK tanking hard because they assume D&D gives you ridiculous snap aggro and decide to go all out, they informed me that they tank on their 80 DK's.
So, in part, they're wrong that all DK's are bad. But, they're kind of right that there are terrible DK tanks out there... namely them.
All I can say is, you're better off with another group, not like it'll take more than 3 minutes to get a new group.

Yup, getting to know your group is probably a good idea.

I find it odd that even though almost everyone can make a DK, so few have a clue about the classes abilities.

That said, Blizzard's frequent changes do not help. They change things so rapdily and by quite some margin each time that it can be very hard to keep track unless you play a DK fulltime.

However, someone saying D&D is required for DK tanking or is "good" needs to be shot. For a long time on my frost DK alt, people kept begging to bring my tank for groups because of my threat and overall instance experience. Needless to say, no part of my tanking rotations (single or aoe) required D&D ;p

[BoxofRox]

I gotta drive the topic in a different direction because I'm a complete ass.

BoA gear on a DK makes me