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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans Dangg's Avatar
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    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviltry
    I think people whined about the nerfs mostly...
    I remember a lot of whining about:
    1) Ensidia killing Yogg after 2 days
    2) Algalon 1 hour timer
    3) Flame Leviathan too easy
    4) Non-linear progression
    5) The hardmode system
    6) Encounter too "hard"/impossible (XT HM) and the following nerfs making them too "easy"

    I myself like Ulduar now and I liked it a year ago.

  2. #42

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    I do really think that Ulduar was the best experience of my raiding career.
    Even though I really liked all the other instances I've raided, the Ulduar gave me the feeling that we're doing something.

    The first time I entered the instance and started the Flame Leviathan event, it really felt like we were doing something, it felt epic as if we were really raiding, attacking the place. For me, that was the best raid introduction of all.

    As we advanced through Ulduar, it really felt like the story was with us. Almost every boss had some significance or background story to explain WHY it is there, fighting against us...

    The presence of story and the feeling of a 'real raid' really gave me the feeling that we were doing something progressive, advancing deeper into secrets of Ulduar, finally finding the being we were sent to search and destroy.


    As for ICC, I really loved the boss mechanics mostly. Although I don't know why, but the introduction of the instance really didn't give me the feeling that they were serious with the defense. After first boss it felt like no-one cared that we were there.

    From the beginning ICC gave really tough bosses compared to rest of the WotLK and many interesting boss mechanics.

    So in my opinion:
    Ulduar was better overall with story, architecture and progress.
    ICC was better in difficulty and mostly boss mechanics


  3. #43

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake
    Personally, it depends on the fight. For example, when my guild killed the first four bosses on the first day of ICC, the only excitement was that there was 264 loot. But for fights like Putricide and the Lich King, of course people are going to be excited on their first downing. Same goes for heroics (minus Gunship)
    Don't quote me out of context, when i said "the encounter" I was specifically (and only) talking about Lich King. Alot of people around these parts have been saying that the fight that is the pinnacle of this expansion was kind of meh, but i just happen to completely disagree =). And thus, I was saying that the first time you actually take the time to learn the fight and kill Lich King it feels awesome.

    EDIT: And my point in even saying this was that I think ICC was a great end to WoTLK (Ruby Sanctum doesnt count).

  4. #44

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    icc layout is like a neat office. not the hq of the lich king. icc doesnt feel like a good old raid dungeon where u r supposed fight deeper in. the whole wing system feels a little too convenient.

  5. #45

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Something else that made ulduar alot more interesting was the fact that we didnt know what broke out. We didnt know much about the corruption. The place was vibrant and alive with things we had never seen before. It had this feel of ancient mystery, of relics hidden away for centuries. It made raiders feel like the WoW version of Indiana Jones.

    But in ICC we have already seen all the architecture before, i mean the whole zone is covered in it. Which makes it alot more boring. We know what the last boss was the entire time. We've seen alot of these zombies before. We just knew what to expect. Because of that there was not any surprises. Even the whole always needing a lich king is told to use in a heroic weve run a million times.

    Also with a couple of the ICC fights there are bosses that are kinda boring because there are chunks where you stand around and do nothing. Like the blood queens are phase, just spread out and wait(yeah I know healers are busy healing those 2 idiots that are hugging eachother and dieing". Gunship is really bad if your not in a cannon, but even then when your kicked out you just kinda wait around. Saurfang just makes you beg for a skip speech button.

    All in all ICC isnt a bad raid, but we just knew what was going to happen and what was in there. No real surprises, which for me personally is a big thing about raiding. Never knowing what surprise is hiding around the next corner. Who is really behind all of this? And will "insert any boss here" DROP MY FREAKING "insert loot here"? BECAUSE I DONT THINK THAT ITEM EVEN EXISTS!

  6. #46

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles
    I know what you mean, but they still did a good job on ICC , even though i did enjoy Ulduar much more. We need more raids like that!
    I agree x1000 i started raiding in BC and Uld was by far the most interesting raid i have ever been in but it took alot of time to clear. maybe a shorter type of thing like it in cata would be cool

  7. #47

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Ya the layout, boss fights and overall look of ulduar is far better than icc. Not that icc is bad, but ulduar is defiantly the best raid of WOTLK (not that it had a lot of competition). I also miss having to do something special to activate hard modes.

  8. #48

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    I really liked ulduar and its epicness and the way to activate the hm's, but theres one big difference here, when you started with ulduar hms u basiclly had naxx gear, now when u finally unlocked the hms in icc u bad basiclly 3/4 264 gear and then some of em was a joke. But it looks like blizz is aware of it and will change that back to the ulduar way in cata.


  9. #49

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowulf
    every expansion gets a lil worse, raiding wise.
    Not sure if that's true or not. TBC was a good example of that, it seemed to get better and better, Sunwell was amazing graphically, so was SSC, Zul'Aman, Hyjal, even though Black Temple lacked a little bit, it was still awesome, it really felt like a Temple. ICC just feelsboring, all they have is an elevator, big freaking deal...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz
    GoD isn't so great for unholy
    Quote Originally Posted by HoX
    i dont understamd ???

  10. #50

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    I thought the very same thing (and still do) until I got to the Lich King, himself.

    Seeing him up on his throne...
    The eerie feel of the top of the citidel.
    The epic scene when you get him to 10% with the volume at 100%
    Grinding down that last 10% while everyone in vent is yelling with excitement.
    The thrill of killing one of WoW's greatest super villains.
    The final cut scene and the awesome weapons he drops.
    ...Now that was epic..

  11. #51

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Would like to go back to Ulduar, indeed it was my favorite raid this expansion.

    Try to pug it from time to time but its always fail because suddenly people forget wtf to do (Becoming like Naxxaramas)

  12. #52

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Quote Originally Posted by wg15
    Ulduar was the golden time of wotlk, but icc and Lichking are cute, too
    I agree.

    I wish Ulduar's gear were still on par with today's levels.. I miss raiding it. It's such an awesome place. =(

  13. #53

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    I personally love Ulduar in comparison to ICC for the Pure fact of the design , the boss encounters and the Final Boss Fight. i remember just getting all excited just entering Yogg P2 For the 1st time was an Epic moment for me. But i have have fought the Lich king which has its greatness about it as an encounter as a whole but No one knew what yogg actually was going to look like until he came up.

    Another plus for ulduar is the first time we were there i forgot to heal the tank on our 1st XT pull :P just the sound of his voice and i was in stitches ;D

  14. #54

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Being currently at 11/12 25 HC with some measly 77% tries on LK, i can say that


    1. Lich King hc
    2. Putri hc
    3. Firefighter

    I enjoy ICC alot more than Ulduar, because of the fights like LK and Sindra, which allow almost any mistakes. Ulduar didnt have that epic feeling that you are killing the main antagonist of the entire Azeroth.


  15. #55

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    I like ICC more.

    Rediculous XT, then extremely easy XT. Same story with Heartbreaker
    Broken Ignis set to hard mode, then extremely easy ignis.
    FL Got nerfed into the ground too early.
    Even razorscale was way harder the first day or 2 of release although I cannot recall why. Seems like they doubled her berserk timer or something.
    Vezax Trash......
    Algalon was bad ass, but I think unlocking him was enough without the 1 hour limit. Or maybe they could have done an icc buff like system where the timer started very short and grew over the weeks/months.

    And of course...
    Extremely Anti-climactic Yogg death. "ughhhhh im dead"*fizzle* *Achievement spam*

    I just don't have near the complaints about ICC.
    Current main: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nordrassil&cn=Thetormented

  16. #56

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Ulduar was singlehandedly the best raid, EVER. Also, it diddn't have a heroic setting, just set hard modes<3

  17. #57

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    I think another reason, on top of what everyone had already said about gothic themes and Ulduar being much more free-for-all design and a tighter connection between bosses, Ulduar feels more epic than ICC is that it took a lot longer for Ulduar to feel like it had bosses you could easily farm. On ICC's release you'd practically oneshot the first four bosses and then hit a door; when Ulduar released you had to literally struggle your way through FL which was back then a very new concept (though I can't say it was particularly hard), the very sick enrage Razorscale had, Ignis being so overtuned it was impossible, XT's No No NO no no no no no was the moment your heart would pump because it was so insane, Iron Council was pretty damn tough but nothing compared to the fear the yell of Kologarn's OBLIVION would incite. I recognized none of the feelings these Ulduar bosses made me feel in ICC. Saurfang's "the ground runs red with your blood" is probably the closest thing I've felt in obvious adrenaline pump or fear during ICC's release.

    That said, the mechanics of the ICC bosses after the later wings were released were pretty boring as compared to Ulduar's. Similarly as many people said, the way hardmodes were activated made it feel more "realistic" (in a RP kind of way) and made players feel more in tune with the content, rather than pushing a button on your UI. I think the new way to set heroic disconnects people from the content and prevents immersion with the encounters as compared to Ulduar's way of doing it.

    Basically, even without the bosses being released on such a wing by wing basis, Ulduar's bosses itself were obstacles enough. ICC was just a pushover at first and only after weeks of farming it were you allowed to see the more challenging content. If that doesn't kill epicness and makes you grow tired of a theme that is recurrent everywhere in the raid, then I don't know what does.

    That, and the +damage/healing/HP buff we get now makes it even feel less interesting, while even Ulduar bosses on farms had a minimum of challenge without feeling the kill was handed to you through some lame buff. Now we see ICC's bosses diminish in epicness not only as we acquire better gear but also because we passively get a 5/10/15/20% buff to our output. It removes a lot of the sense of achievement, farm content or not.


    And Ulduar not being available for the average player probably added a sense of elitist epicness that you were actually doing something most weren't/couldn't do.

  18. #58
    Epic! Malania's Avatar
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    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    ICC is fine, its not terrible, It's just detached. The bosses and zones don't really feel linked. The first 4 are fine, but it doesn't even feel like you've made it into ICC until Saufang is dead. You have the wings of Plague, Frost and Blood with bosses not related to each other outside of the wings and so very little interaction or reason on why we're bothering with them.

    Sindragosa at least feels like a guard to the Lich King... The only guard. The entire purpose of ICC is to kill the LK and everything on the way feels like a pointless distraction, not a test as the LK states it was. The citadel doesn't even feel like a citadel in the end, kill 4 bosses outside to get in, kill 8 bosses unrelated to activate a teleporter...

    Ulduar was alot more interactive with keepers and story you have been questing around and learning about. Even optional bosses had a point and story around. Hardmodes were interactive, not just turned on or off. Guardians were fun as you knew what had happened to them and what there role was and the Prison of Yogg Saron shattered, Algalon warning the titans the defences and prison had failed. It was all related and felt like everything you did was relatesd to the next point, the next boss. Plus you know. Ulduar before the nerfs. Fights were pro. Yes there was alot of bugs with it on release but when the bugs were ironed out, before any nerfs, the fights were decent and challenging.

  19. #59

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake
    I really feel that the designers put more effort into Ulduar than ICC. Not only is ICC more or less staring into one bland room compared to the extreme variety that Ulduar had just by moving from room to room, it just seemed like another ToC - another instance to buy time until the expansion. Ulduar had this certain feel to it, of just pure epic-ness that Icecrown really doesn't. Even with ToC going out as early as it did, they still couldn't make Icecrown surpass or even come close to, in my opinion, Ulduar standards.

    What do you guys think?
    Icecrown's in a fucking Glacier, ther's the Lich King in it, how could they possibly make it look "various"?


    Ulduar is various just because inside it ther's 4 keepers of 4 different elements, plus ther's an "Antechamber" wich allows developers to vary even more, and yeah, ther's even a courtyard part.

    ICC is way smaller and it's purpose wasn't to look good, but cold, scary and solitary. And they succeed.

  20. #60

    Re: Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

    Without comparing the two instances, I'll give my opinion of ICC.

    I do feel like ICC lacks a certain "epicness" to it. It's not so much the architecture, it just seems disjointed. Most of all, I think the lore aspect of it was disappointing. The task of defeating Arthas has been building up in lore since before WoW even came out, even people who's introduction to Warcraft was WoW have been dealing with the Scourge and Lich King since leveling in Vanilla WoW. Fast forward to the present, and you have what seems like build up for an epic conclusion, with Sylvanas and others assisting you in your quest to defeat the Lich King. Once you get to him, and defeat him, all of these heroes are MIA.

    For a battle that the fate of the world hinges on (yes I know, Azeroth has supposedly hinged on your success in previous raid encounters, but they weren't the Lich King) it just feels empty. The shrine in Dalaran is kind of neat, but it's not part of the instance.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, I think ICC is an excellent raid, I just feel that it lacks a certain something.

    P.S. Why is Plague wing the only area that has dialogue changes on Heroic? I thought that was really cool, I'm not sure why they didn't add more of that to other wings.

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