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  1. #1

    Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    So I've been under the impression lately that Blood is the superior spec for DK tanking, but in my ToGC 25 PUG today I was told that Blood takes much larger hits than frost and that frost DW is superior in terms of threat AND mitigation. Could anyone help me out with this and tell me if this is true or not?

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Depends on the skill of the DK. I think DKs in general take more damage than other tanks.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  3. #3

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    They might take more damage than other tanks, but the person who told me this was also a DK, so this really isn't a matter of Dk's vs. other tanks, but rather Blood vs. Frost

  4. #4

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    DW threat is better because of the scaling on 2 slow 1H weapons, also because of the frost talents that buff Icy Touch and Frost Damage, which gives icy touch spam massive amounts of threat. In 5mans as frost DW, I was spamming Icy Touch to around 15k TPS. As for Blood taking Larger hits while tanking, it could be because they are hit slightly more often as they are missing Frigid Deathplate (3% miss chance), as well as the 2% damage reduction from Imp Frost Presence. However, when taking big hits or hits taking hits below 35% blood will take less damage because of Will of the Necropolis (15% reduction on damage that takes you below 35% or taken while below 35%)

  5. #5

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles
    Depends on the skill of the DK. I think DKs in general take more damage than other tanks.
    So so so wrong...


    -----

    Anyways depends on play style imo. I personally am DW Frost as I like it more. Falls down to cd's and on bloods cd is only slightly better.

  6. #6

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    It depends on you're prefrence but frost dw and blood 2h are pretty close

    I personally play blood and am 9/12 icc25 hardmodes
    while frost has 2% damage reduction and 3% avoidance (which is very good) compared to bloods 3%hp, will of the necropolis is quite amazing. It directly increases your effective health. The other deciding factor is how much better vamp blood is than unbreakable armor.

    I would say blood is the current best spec but if you like dw frost, then play dw frost

    my armory is patrin on bleeding hollow btw. Can't link from my iPhone


    Oh and to the guy talking about frost/blood threat, ever since the icy touch buff not even the rogues in my guild that pull 14k dps come remotely close to me... I think I might literally have the best single target threat on my server... As blood.

  7. #7

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    alright its good to know that Blood is still arguably the best, Here is my armory link, it would be cool if someone could look at my spec and tell me if it looks right

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Had%C3%A8s

  8. #8

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    i think you should just get in the habit as a blood tank since in cata it seems that will be the only viable tank spec for dks but thats just my opinion :P

  9. #9

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Blood takes 2% larger hits than Frost but has 3% more health. It is pretty much a wash which takes more damage. You also have to remember that blood does a pretty substantial amount of self healing. If you are at around 50k health raid buffed those 3 death strikes you are doing every 20 seconds heal for 7.5k health each, thats over 1k hps on yourself which more than makes up for the slightly increased damage you are taking vs frost. With even minor timing control it also means you can have an instant self heal right after any predictable damage spikes (e.g. impale). Being able to self heal for 15k within two seconds of an impale is nothing to be laughed at. Nevermind that being Blood turns ERW into a tanking cooldown since you can pop it and get those two instant back to back heals in an emergency.

    Since the change to Icy Touch threat should be a non-issue for either spec so it is kind of irrelevent. As Blood for the first time ever I find myself accidentally pulling aggro back off of other tanks when they taunt me if I am not careful now. Personally I much prefer tanking as Blood in all situations but if someone wants to go frost and can tank well as it good for them. Anyone telling you that either spec is far superior to the other isn't really knowing what they are saying though. The general consensus seems to be that Blood is slightly better overall but it is close enough that it is still in debate.

    In short, if you prefer Frost or you prefer Blood you can tank with that spec and it will do fine. If anyone tells you that the difference between the two is big enough to make a significant difference they are wrong.

  10. #10

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Just 2h blood, because in 8 months that's all you'll be doing so you might as well get used to it now.

  11. #11

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    feels mostly to me that blood overtakes frost simply because effective health is easier to play/manage than the mitigation/avoidance of frost, avoidance is a joke in ICC with that dodge debuff, making EH king, which blood happens to be the king of.

    if more fights were more physical damage based, frost would possibly outshine it, but frosts cd's and innate defenses are a little lackluster when it comes to magical damage, hence making blood more attractice.

    blood does take more overall damage, but they've got the retardededly good scaling hp talents and cd's, coupled with self healing that isnt really all that mockable.

    just my opinion, im a dps dk in a 9/12 hm 25 guild also.

  12. #12

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Blood is superior in superior gear. My DK is lackluster in gear on EH items, so the health bonus between Blood and Frost is minor, and in my case I choose frost until it get's some better gear and stam trinkets possibly. Threat on a DK is stupid insane though, my dk out threats my pally on single target easily and they are not even closely geared, with the pally being way ahead on the gear.

  13. #13

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Deathstrikes heal for 15% of your hp. I easily hit 10k heals when you add in 6% heal buff from resto Druids. Then again I hit 68k hp in icc.

    As some people say blood might take a bit more damage but damage taken is nearly irrelivent bucause of how healing works in wrath. You generally have one or two holy paladins spamming you. Regardless of if you dodge a hit or not that paladin is going to HL you for 25k. By this logic all that matters is avoiding getting bursted down. This is why I value stam and armor heavily over avoidance.

    Looking at the OPs gear I'd reccomend getting both crafted 264 tanking pieces (boots and legs) neither have defense which makes them extremely well optimized in a world where geared players can sit as high as 490def in pure def gear. Your armor trinket is decent but I'd go for juggers from toc25 or sindragosas trinket.

    And yes dropping a runetap >deathstrike right after sindy's breaths is amazing. Also chaining ibf into vamp blood during the 90% damage phase makes you the best festergut tank in the game

  14. #14
    Fluffy Kitten Zao's Avatar
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    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Blood vs Frost comparison.

    Passive: 3% Health+ WotN vs 2% Mitigation+3% avoidance. Although mhp will disagree with me (told there'd be another thread) WotN makes the difference here, while not directly measuarble it will help a lot on fights like Sindragosa and Festergut P2.

    Active: VB vs UbA+6 second IBF. Blood clearly wins this one on most fights where cds are actually needed. For pure Mitigation (ie using UbA or VB everytime it's up) Frost comes out ahead.

    Threat: Frost comes out ahead on TPS and DPS.

    I think one of the main reasons Blood is so popular is that it gives you more of a ...visual...effect when you pop cds. having 70k HP is way better psychologically than "oh look I'm at the armor cap".
    But in the end, both are doable on everything ( I think Frost has some problems on LK due to VB being much better suited for it) and it comes down to what playstyle you prefer.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster mhp's Avatar
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    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    They're about equal, both work for everything. I haven't noticed any problems on LK as frost. Heroic LK might be different, but I'm quite far from that yet.

    But, to answer the OPs question: yes, DW does more threat (slightly), which is fairly irrelevant, as even blood will be miles ahead of DPSers' threat, so more of it doesn't matter, and yes, frost has more mitigation.

    However, Blood has higher EH due to VB.

    But, like I said, both specs work just fine in ICC and everywhere else.

    Quote Originally Posted by vegastommy
    Just 2h blood, because in 8 months that's all you'll be doing so you might as well get used to it now.
    That's a pointless advice, since blood will be very, very, very different in 8 months. There's nothing we can get used to, since we'll have to relearn almost everything anyway, when 4.0 hits.

  16. #16

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    As mhp said... threat doesn't really matter with the changes to icy touch. What you should look at is in which spec do you do more damage in? DPS matters on hardmodes and the more you have the better.

    The only real reason to be a DW frost tank is if your raid is missing IIT.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster mhp's Avatar
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    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyl
    The only real reason to be a DW frost tank is if your raid is missing IIT.
    No. A DW frost tank does not have IIT.

    The only real reason to be blood is if you can't survive without VB. *cackle*

  18. #18

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Hysteria is reason enough to tank as Blood.
    Armory available upon request, but here is a small preview:
    It is better than yours.

  19. #19

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Hysteria is great... but if your group doesn't have a melee haste (my ten man run doesn't) you should get it. Again, it comes down to a question of DPS because threat for any spec isn't a problem. Though I'm only speaking with 10 man hardmodes in mind... my dk is my alt, my mage is my main. In my 10 man run I run a frost 2h spec with IIT and healers haven't had any complaints (10/12 heroics) and dps isn't near me on threat.

  20. #20

    Re: Frost DW Vs. Blood 2H [Tanking]

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkshift
    So I've been under the impression lately that Blood is the superior spec for DK tanking, but in my ToGC 25 PUG today I was told that Blood takes much larger hits than frost and that frost DW is superior in terms of threat AND mitigation. Could anyone help me out with this and tell me if this is true or not?
    i was blood tank for a LONG time, throughout ulduar and toc, when it game to togc i changed to frost for a specific fight, anub adds. At the time, everyone (except a frost dw tank on this forums... can't remember their name from the top of my head) said it was suicide, the adds need to be tanked by a shield tank blah blah blah.

    i specced into his build, and sure enough, we downed it next attempt and every other after that. no wipes due to tank death on adds.

    perhaps frost has a little more mitigation, however having a larger healthpool adds for something. also do not count out vampiric blood and all the death strikes


    i'm currently testing out a 2h frost tank build and am loving it, i'll miss it in cata

    blood has always been traditionally more ST threat, this changed however with the icy touch buff... you should see the threat with a frost build now O.o

    it's ridiculous in comparison.

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