How do you handle bad players using random dungeon finder?

[mickloven]

I'm leveling an alt priest (disc for healing) and would not be doing it without the dungeon finder. I love it and my general experience has been extremely good. With that being said, as I have entered Outland, I have noticed an increase in really bad players. I'm not sure why, to be honest. I would have thought this would have been a problem in the lower instances, but maybe it is simply more noticeable as the instances become slightly more difficult and bad play becomes more obvious.

A few examples:

Yesterday afternoon in Blood Furnace, a Warlock in our group was using his Voidwalker, which offers absolutely no utility to the group. I whispered him and suggested he use a different demon to boost damage and/or group stats. He ignored me.

In the same group, I advised the tank to pull mobs away from the mines as they do massive damage and can easily lead to a wipe when pulling 2 groups at a time. The tank ignored me and the group wiped. I left the group.

On the final boss in Ramps, we wiped (never should wipe in Ramps) because the entire group stood in fire. 2 people typed in party chat "WHERE WERE THE HEALS" and I explained that I can't heal 4 people standing in fire. We started again (after a 15 minute delay b/c people don't know how to find the instance) and they did the same thing again. I dropped.

So, here is my question, do you even try to give advice in random 5 mans? If so, do people ever listen? It seems to me that you can get a sense of a group pretty quick, and, if it is bad, don't waste the time, just drop, quest for a while and wait for the cooldown to be over and join the next group. Just curious what others do.

[dyce09]

Well first off, as you are not doing random's at level 80 you can't expect to not group with people who are new to the game. I'm sure it might just seem more noticeable due to Outland dungeons being a little more 'challenging' AND just bad luck with getting many occassion with bad players all together at once.

Second, this is why I think it's total bullshit when people, on these forums, try to act like they are such great people by doing a great community service when they say things like "I always help out others in raids. I don't mind running with fresh 80's and helping them gear up. I gladly answer any questions I have" - as a lot of the time, like your examples shows, that the 'problems' these 'bad' players were having - when you tried to help or explain why it made them bad they either ignored you or blaimed you.

For the example of the group standing in fire, if someone dies to standing in fire then complains about not getting heals, it is hardly worth trying to 'explain to them' how to not stand in fire and be patient with their 'new-to-the-game' nubness. These people are obviously not going to take your suggestions kindly. I'll demostrate:

Them: "Dude, where's my heals?"
You: "I can't heal everyone when standing in fire. The boss drops fire on the ground, don't stand in them."

If someone attacks you for something they felt was you fault, then you tell them that it was infact their own fault, not too many people are going to like that, they'll probably respond something like this:

Them: "No I wasn't, learn to heal better"
You: "Yes you were, check your combat log to see how much fire damage you took"

Which doesn't help anyways. This is why I always treat people as they 'deserve' to be treated. If someone does an honest mistake and admits to it and is humble about it, they will not get any flack from me. If I'm in a ICC 10man and people don't tell you they don't know the boss fight then cause a wipe, they getting their shit torn.

[Deleted]

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...-Obituary.html

Link the death report to them - proving that they were stood in fire. This is my favourite addon EVER! as it proves to the.... challenged players, that they died, and it was thier fault - try it in random HC's for a day, seroiusly!

[Nev12]

I Ignore them(not via the in-game ignore function of course).
The only thing I do is, join the party and clear the instance without saying anything, I'm aware that sometimes I won't be able to clear it due to failing.

I mean I've run so many instances that I really don't expect anything from people, and if I do, I'll expect them to be bad.

[prodron]

I have a program that queues me up for dungeons as DPS, and then says "Whoa guys sorry Ill brb 5 min!"

ez.

[deadjack]

dyce not all people react like that
and even if they dont accept there mistake after first explanation, after a few grp telling them there mistake they might see its there fault
What is important is to say it in a very polite and calm manner and if they don't accept it just don't talk about that mistake anymore

[ItachiZaku]

I don't really help them. I don't like help either. Sometimes I'm just testing shit, sometimes I'm still in my leveling spec, sometimes my buddy hasn't been on for 2 days, sometimesI don't have glyphs, sometimes I'm downloading movies so my shit is slow.

Once in awhile, if someone is on a completely new level of suck, i'll mock them in guild chat or something, but it's only a dungeon.

[dyce09]

dyce not all people react like that
and even if they dont accept there mistake after first explanation, after a few grp telling them there mistake they might see its there fault
What is important is to say it in a very polite and calm manner and if they don't accept it just don't talk about that mistake anymore

You're right, not everyone reacts in that matter. Shit, there are people who have kissed the hands of the person who murdered their children and gave them a blessing as they went off to jail. Would I react that way, no. Would most, probably not.

If someone murders your family, most people will get angry, vengeful, mad, etc... if someone does anything other than the "norm" this does no make anyone who assumes the norm and acts according incorrect or wrong.

Very few people will have to golly to specifically call out and accuse someone of "letting them die" and then take a completely contradictory defensive suggestion that it was infact their fault very well. As the type of people who are aggressive and point out others mistakes USUALLY do not take criticism very well NOR like being told they are incorrect.

I understand if someone dies in a fire and doesn't say anything. You then can tell them, calm and politely, to not stand in fire. It's when they merit themselves to an inapproportionate response, the calm, cool, collect approach just won't work.

[foxHeart]

If they are causing the group to wipe in any way (healer, dps, or tank), they get the vtk. If they're just crappy dps, I don't really care unless the group's collective dps is crap. Even then I just let out a sigh. I don't take time to tell people what they're doing wrong because...who listens? They are either 'playing for fun' or ignoring me. I just quit caring altogether.

[bondgirl]

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...-Obituary.html

Link the death report to them - proving that they were stood in fire. This is my favourite addon EVER! as it proves to the.... challenged players, that they died, and it was thier fault - try it in random HC's for a day, seroiusly!

2nd that.
best and must have addon for everyone. as it indicates that its their own fault b4 they can treat anyone else about it
and no its not an elitist addon its simply a way to show the rest that you were right and not the guy that failed horrible!

[Bodorio]

If you are a tank: put on some dps gear and do monstrous dps (I can reach 5k overall dps tanking with a shield and onehander, without getting killed).
If you are dps: Do massive amounts of dps and cc, just make sure the dungeon gets done fast.
If you are a healer: Sigh, and read a book while you roll your balls on the keyboard.

Seriously, even HoR is an incredible faceroll nowadays, dont get knocked down because of horrible players.

[mickloven]

2nd that.
best and must have addon for everyone. as it indicates that its their own fault b4 they can treat anyone else about it
and no its not an elitist addon its simply a way to show the rest that you were right and not the guy that failed horrible!

I didn't know this addon existed. First download tonight. Thanks!

[MusikDisaster]

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...-Obituary.html

Link the death report to them - proving that they were stood in fire. This is my favourite addon EVER! as it proves to the.... challenged players, that they died, and it was thier fault - try it in random HC's for a day, seroiusly!

I love you.

[SonsofDisaster]

I've been leveling a druid (Resto/Feral dual-specced) with my boyfriend (his first character) and we just got to Outland and I, too, noticed a LARGE increase in the general lack of competence of groups. I've decided that it's mostly because Outland dungeons do require a substantial amount of cohesion more than Old World dungeons. Standing in fire, face-pulling multiple packs, non-tanks trying to offtank (DKs deathgripping random mobs, argh), and healers not being on the ball can all lead to a wipe much faster than they would in previous (pre-BRD/DM/etc) dungeons.

What I find more disturbing than the general lack of competence of players in these dungeons, however, is the bad attitudes that seem to come along with them. Self-absorbed tanks and healers, players that won't take CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, people pulling whole rooms just to purposefully cause a wipe before dropping group, and nearly constant bickering are all ridiculously pervasive.

It's actually been frustrating me a bit as I love to run dungeons, but really don't want to have to deal with four other player's inflated egos. I don't mind people not playing "well," as long as they are at least receptive to my advice... I have (and still do) appreciate when someone offers some constructive feedback to my playstyle.

[Zaebos]

im doing the same thing lving a disc priest becouse of the new dungen finder program. i always wanted a priest but could not stand questing on a healer.

for me it the group is just plain fail i leave no questions asked. although if theres just one person that realy bugs me but no one ells i will vote to kick first and then leave if we dont kick them.

[SobeBauxite]

Play so much better that their fail doesn't make a difference. If I'm tanking a group and I know the dps are going to pull something because they're retarded, I hold back with some of my threat moves that aren't necessary to hold aggro (shockwave, challenging shout, taunts, righteous defense, etc) so that when shit hits the fan I can pop cooldowns and control the situation. If I'm healing, I'll keep cooldowns available (tranquility, divine hymn, etc) for the same situations.

People suck, and doing randoms puts you in a position where you're sometimes stuck playing with people who suck. Just roll with it, and you'll find yourself a much better player for having had to deal with idiots.

[dyce09]

Play so much better that their fail doesn't make a difference. If I'm tanking a group and I know the dps are going to pull something because they're retarded, I hold back with some of my threat moves that aren't necessary to hold aggro (shockwave, challenging shout, taunts, righteous defense, etc) so that when shit hits the fan I can pop cooldowns and control the situation. If I'm healing, I'll keep cooldowns available (tranquility, divine hymn, etc) for the same situations.

People suck, and doing randoms puts you in a position where you're sometimes stuck playing with people who suck. Just roll with it, and you'll find yourself a much better player for having had to deal with idiots.

Playing with idiots does not make you a better player. It just makes you a experienced player when playing with idiots. As for being a better player does not come from you having to hold nub's hands and carry their asses through shit. Accomplishing feats you've never done before and contributing more than you've done before makes you a better player.

[Vorkalis]

in my own experience skilled players are around the lvl 30 - 50, but when you get to outland, ... most of the ppl I've met in dungeon finder 60-70 are complete idiots

[Azoth]

Make fun of them in guild chat?

I've long stopped trying to give advice or point bad players to websites to help them with their spec, gear, glyphs, gems, enchants. It's just not worth the 1 person out of 100 bads that actually takes the advice and thanks me to put up with the other 99 calling me a n00b and telling me they know what they are doing and to stfu, diaf or any other 4 letter acronyms.

[rabbimojo]

Playing with idiots does not make you a better player. It just makes you a experienced player when playing with idiots. As for being a better player does not come from you having to hold nub's hands and carry their asses through shit. Accomplishing feats you've never done before and contributing more than you've done before makes you a better player.

Dunno, I've felt before plenty that having to compensate for others' failures makes me know my stuff better. If you've got a bad healer, it makes you more aware of your survival options (pots, stones, CDs, etc). They become second-nature, whereas if you run with a great healer you may never have to think about it.

Similarly, as DPS with a bad tank, it makes you learn the threat signature of all your abilities, so you can better learn how to stay under a tank in shaky scenarios (adds in raids when a tank has other crap to deal with).

As a tank with a bad healer, you learn how to truly minimize damage intake. With bad DPS, you learn how to maximize damage output to compensate.
etc.

As for OP: I just weigh my options. If continuing running is just going to stress me out, I take off. Usually I'll say something, but if they've been jerks I won't. Typically I just carry them and don't care. Once in awhile, when I'm feeling charitable, I'll try to pick the right way to give a player advice. Lots of people are open to it, if you know how to say it right. :P