PoH Changes in Cataclysm

[harky]

Well, we already have a Blizzard/Hurricane(/Rain of Fire) type spell in Hymn. Druids have one in Tranq. Meh. Flamestrike could be interesting, but Shaman are getting Healing Rain, which is exactly like Flamestrike, minus the initial hit.

So, not sure I buy any of those ideas. Living Bomb as well. Living Bomb is based on Lifebloom, but in an AOE format and damage. Not sure an AOE Lifebloom is what anyone wants. It would also be very, very situational. Back-loaded HoTs are unreliable. Especially if you're counting on it for AOE healing.

I think if you were going to look for something like that you might go for Mind Sear. You hit one target and it hits the surrounding targets. Maybe give it a cast time instead of being channeled. Of course, we would need to limit the targets. Maybe make it only hit the targets party? Give it a really big range though so it will be able to get the whole party...

...wait, nm.

[tricknick76]

Here's an idea no one has ever thought of:

A Smart-Hot

Basically, you cast this heal on a player, and it will heal them every .5 seconds until they've reached x% of their health and then move on to the next lowest HP within range.
This covers:
1) a cast time
2) no cooldown
3) keep the same mana cost
4) cast on different people to keep up aoe heals

For example, it would read like this:

Prayer of Healing
41% of Base Mana 3 Second Cast
Places a prayer on the target, healing them every .5 seconds. Once they have reached at least 60% of their maximum HP, the heal jumps to the lowest target within 20 yards. Heals for a total of 18,000 (increased by spellpower) over 18 seconds. (level 80 values)

This way, it's a single-target HoT of 500 per tick. Spellpower coefficient is 100% over 18 seconds, so with 4,000 spellpower each tick gets an additional 111 health. Haste increases the amount of ticks in the 18 seconds, so if it normally does 36 ticks in the 18 seconds and you have 10% more haste, it would do (36+3.6) 40 ticks in the 18 seconds, or one every 0.45 seconds.

It's like something to cast instead of Renew. It's also selective - with it's limited range, you can distinguish "melee group" from "range group". It's an extra HoT. And with the health pools being 3 times the size in cataclysm and the whole "not everyone is supposed to be topped off, just use your heals to get people from 10% to 50%" scenario, it can prove to be pretty effective. On top of this, its overhealing is very limited and it works well with more healers.

[Lysdexic]

Here's an idea no one has ever thought of:

A Smart-Hot

Basically, you cast this heal on a player, and it will heal them every .5 seconds until they've reached x% of their health and then move on to the next lowest HP within range.
This covers:
1) a cast time
2) no cooldown
3) keep the same mana cost
4) cast on different people to keep up aoe heals

For example, it would read like this:

Prayer of Healing
41% of Base Mana 3 Second Cast
Places a prayer on the target, healing them every .5 seconds. Once they have reached at least 60% of their maximum HP, the heal jumps to the lowest target within 20 yards. Heals for a total of 18,000 (increased by spellpower) over 18 seconds. (level 80 values)

This way, it's a single-target HoT of 500 per tick. Spellpower coefficient is 100% over 18 seconds, so with 4,000 spellpower each tick gets an additional 111 health. Haste increases the amount of ticks in the 18 seconds, so if it normally does 36 ticks in the 18 seconds and you have 10% more haste, it would do (36+3.6) 40 ticks in the 18 seconds, or one every 0.45 seconds.

It's like something to cast instead of Renew. It's also selective - with it's limited range, you can distinguish "melee group" from "range group". It's an extra HoT. And with the health pools being 3 times the size in cataclysm and the whole "not everyone is supposed to be topped off, just use your heals to get people from 10% to 50%" scenario, it can prove to be pretty effective. On top of this, its overhealing is very limited and it works well with more healers.

I call it Prayer of Mending Renewing!

[Zoros]

I thought a similar idea some time ago but with Dispel Magic, a kind of Abolish Magic that jump to other players when there's nothing more to dispel. But in my opinion heals that requiere to target are more fun than the smart or random ones. I like Circle of Healing and I like Prayer of Mending, but a third cast-and-forget spell would be too much. So no to your suggestion of Prayer of Renewal.

[Radux]

Here's an idea no one has ever thought of:

A Smart-Hot

Basically, you cast this heal on a player, and it will heal them every .5 seconds until they've reached x% of their health and then move on to the next lowest HP within range.
This covers:
1) a cast time
2) no cooldown
3) keep the same mana cost
4) cast on different people to keep up aoe heals

For example, it would read like this:

Prayer of Healing
41% of Base Mana 3 Second Cast
Places a prayer on the target, healing them every .5 seconds. Once they have reached at least 60% of their maximum HP, the heal jumps to the lowest target within 20 yards. Heals for a total of 18,000 (increased by spellpower) over 18 seconds. (level 80 values)

This way, it's a single-target HoT of 500 per tick. Spellpower coefficient is 100% over 18 seconds, so with 4,000 spellpower each tick gets an additional 111 health. Haste increases the amount of ticks in the 18 seconds, so if it normally does 36 ticks in the 18 seconds and you have 10% more haste, it would do (36+3.6) 40 ticks in the 18 seconds, or one every 0.45 seconds.

It's like something to cast instead of Renew. It's also selective - with it's limited range, you can distinguish "melee group" from "range group". It's an extra HoT. And with the health pools being 3 times the size in cataclysm and the whole "not everyone is supposed to be topped off, just use your heals to get people from 10% to 50%" scenario, it can prove to be pretty effective. On top of this, its overhealing is very limited and it works well with more healers.

In general, a cool idea. However, this would be a terrible fix to PoH. If my CoH is on CD and I still need to heal people up, this spell would be absolute shit; especially if more AoE damage comes.

[sacrypheyes]

i just came up with something like that:

Prayer Of Healing
30% base mana, Instant cast, 1mn cooldown, doesn't trigger gcd

Empowers your next flash heal, heal, greater heal or renew cast in the next 30sec, increasing its mana cost by 100%. (making total mana cost around 65-90% base mana depending on spell used)
Next time you will use one of these spells, it will heal the target and party members within 40yards.
If target is a raid member then raid members within 20yards with the lowest health will be healed instead.

Healing done depends on healing spell used, as well as its additionnal effect :
-flash heal, heal, greater heal : additionnal healing (heals for more on longer cast times)
-renew : additionnal heal over time (can stack with renew)

[Zoros]

It's a fun idea, 3 versions of PoH: fast, big, and HoT. However it doesn't solve the reason why Blizzard wants to change the spell. Besides priests have enough cooldowns: Inner Focus, Guardian Spirit/Pain Suppresion, Power Infusion/Lightwell and Leap of Faith. I prefer a non-cooldown spell or a really short cooldown like Prayer of Mending.

[Radux]

Honestly, PoH needs to be one of a few options:

1) Keep it as is: Cast + Mid/High mana cost + Party Targeted.

2) Change it: Cast + Mid/High mana cost + Smart Heal -- No Party Limitation.

3) Change it: Cast + Mid/High mana cost + Not Smart Heal -- Unlimited Target Limitation (Diminishing returns, like DPS AoE, currently).'

There may be others, but those seem to be the front runners as far as potential ideas without changing the complete idea behind the spell.

[Kelesti]

With the exception of Zeuq's awesome possible "set up your own groups" UI suggestion, I can't really feel an improvement for Prayer. The more I think about it, the less I want them to do anything about it.

But if they're absolving group mechanics, what does that have to do for Vampiric Embrace, Healing Stream, Holy Nova, and Divine Sacrifice? It's easy to fix Tranquility, the rest of these? Not so much.

And I'm continuing to worry for what's in store for Prayer, living with a sense of impending doom.

[Cracka_Bob]

how about a shorter, weaker version of divine hymn?

[harky]

With what type of cooldown and cost? The issue with Divine Hymn is twofold. Yes, it heals for a massive amount, but that isn't all that it does. The main issue in the long run is that it specifically picks targets based on current health. It's a great mechanic for a long cooldown, but if the same mechanic was applied to a short cooldown, or to a spell with no cooldown, then you'd begin to see some pretty large problems.

Let's say it has the same duration as the current cast time, which is 3 seconds. Let's say during that time it produces 2 pulses of healing, each pulse hitting 3 targets for ~42% of what PoH currently heals. This would make the new version heal for the exact same amount total. So now, what cooldown do you put on it? It's not powerful enough healing-wise to be a 20+ second cooldown. So what do we put it at? 6, 8? Either way it will be so incredibly powerful that you will want to hit it every cooldown. Remove the cooldown? Then it will be spammed with the exclusion of most other spells. Why? Well, it will virtually never over-heal. It's a medium/low strength heal that automatically targets the lowest health members of your raid and heals them.

So what do we do? Give it a mana cost that prevents spam? It doesn't heal for enough to make it a worthwhile spell to cast in emergencies as it's basically an expensive as hell HoT. So then what? Do we make it a 30 second cooldown and double the healing? There are just too many issues and none of them are really going to solve the main problem: It would require little to no skill to use. You'd press it, then watch your cast bar. That's it, it picks whoever needs healing the most and heals them for you. I don't know many people who want automated heals. CoH and PoM are bad enough about this.

Honestly, as Kelesti and others have mentioned, PoH needs to stay the way it is. Removing the party limitation creates a nightmarish smart heal. Making it raid wide with a smaller radius makes it overpowered in other ways. All the 'clever' changes make it less useful. It's currently a very strong filler spell with a specific use and a very steep cost. It's one of the best designed heals we have. If anything needs fixing it's PoM. Dummy-fire heal with overpowered healing values which becomes completely obscene in damage aura fights... why is this fun again? The biggest 'cool' change that's happening is that Renew will potentially get haste/crit applied to it. When (if) that occurs, then I'll be happy. That's the one chance to current healing mechanics that's really, truly needed.

[Zeuq]

harky, I completely agree with everything you say, and I'm not happy with a lot of the suggestions in this thread, even most of the ones I came up with in the OP. What makes PoH an interesting spell now is that it's powerful, but at a high cost (expensive and long cast), and that it's predictable. PoM and CoH just require a lot less thought and it makes them less interesting. Unfortunately, I think it's most likely that we'll be seeing the idea of the party in the raid as we know it today to be gone. And, really, there's little reason to keep it the way it is now since there's only a few abilities that are still limited to the party, and most of them aren't terribly difficult to fix. In fact, I think PoH is the hardest one. Should Blizzard hold back an overall positive change for everyone because of a few abilities or possibly even only one?

That's why I suggested the idea of allowing the continuation of some UI-only form of group, because it's useful, not just for allowing PoH to remain almost unchanged, but for other things. Either way, my point was to pretty much assume that PoH cannot stay as it is and see what kinds of solutions we can come up with.

But if they're absolving group mechanics, what does that have to do for Vampiric Embrace, Healing Stream, Holy Nova, and Divine Sacrifice? It's easy to fix Tranquility, the rest of these? Not so much.

I'm not sure how great these options are, but I have a few ideas.

For instance, I think it would be neat if Vampiric Embrace and Healing Stream would be combined into a buff akin to Replenishment, except for Health instead of Mana. You'd probably need to give it to another class or two just to make sure (probably Resto Druids and maybe Blood DKs or Prot Pallies or something). So, the healing would just be some small percentage of the max health of the 3-5 lowest health targets (absolute rather than percentage so it's more a small raid healing tool than a tank HoT), and put some kind of limit on it so raid don't have an incentive to stack the hell out of it. If that's too complicated, maybe just a small amount of HP5 or something.

For Holy Nova, I'd say let it be a raidwide heal, but make it cost prohibitive. Also, put a cap on an AoE cap on it, the difference would be it would count the total targets as friendly and enemy. It should also be strictly less powerful than Healing Hands or Healing Rain, even if all the targets are friendly. Thus, if you run into melee and spam it, you'll go OOM in a hurry and not really accomplish anything; though it might still be useful in some AoE situations.

For Divine Sacrifice, why not not just make it more of a cooldown along the lines of Divine Hymn and Tranquility? Assuming Tranquility will be changed to more of a HoT version of Divine Hymn, can't Divine Sacrifice be a long cooldown absorb based version of those? So let it pick, say, the 8-10 lowest health targets, but increase the cooldown to 8 minutes like DH and Tranq. The other benefit of this sort of thing is that it would give most of the healers a nice emergency button, but each would have a somewhat different feel.

[Radux]

@Zeuq
Where I agree with pretty much everything you said, one major thing that we still need to keep in mind, especially with party-wide spells being moved to (potentially) raid wide spells, is that Blizzard is changing every number. So balancing something like Holy Nova (mana cost you suggested) or HS Totem (Make it a super weak blanket spell) or even VE (I actually really liked your suggestion here).

The problem still remains, even with number changes, I have no idea how they could potentially propose a beneficial change to PoH without pissing off a gigantic chunk of the community.

[Nuronv]

From having a read through this thread it seems it appears to me people want a spell that is as expensive as and heals as much as the current version but without the group only mechanic. I liked an earlier idea of having a separate UI for it, taking that on another i thought why not just have a buff you use to select the people who you want to effect in advance.

1- You could place the buff "Chosen" on up to 5 people in your raid, PoH would then only effect those 5 people. The problem being of course you can't change its targets very quickly.

2- My other thought is that instead it could work like a normal 30 yard AOE heal with a heal cap but with a quirk like the maybe heal is very week near the priest and grows stronger as it reaches the outside of the 30 yard radius. Or it only heals in a band between 15-30 yards so you would use holy nova for close raid members and PoH for those further away, this gives you some degree of targeting

[Zoros]

Holy Nova seems easy to fix. It could heal all friendly targets in the area (without party restricion), but when it heals more than 3 targets the amount of healing is reduced drastically.