so confused =/ [Ele]

[Kazuku65]

yes i've gone through the faq, went through rawr, read ej and several other reguarded ele shams. to my understanding, past [X] point in haste,CL becomes a dps loss unless there is 2 or more targets. Just downloaded rawr and went through looking for upgrades etc., the rotation it wants to use involves CL, when sim'd w/out CL it drops over 1k dps?? can someone please clarify this mess

[Foxhoundn]

yes i've gone through the faq, went through rawr, read ej and several other reguarded ele shams. to my understanding, past [X] point in haste,CL becomes a dps loss unless there is 2 or more targets. Just downloaded rawr and went through looking for upgrades etc., the rotation it wants to use involves CL, when sim'd w/out CL it drops over 1k dps?? can someone please clarify this mess

Was it a single target fight?

[Taun]

The point where chain lightning becomes obselete on singletarget fights is when you got your lightningbolt at the GCD. It just might be that you're not at the "hastecap".

[Airlick]

I don't think CL is EVER good in single target rotation. Maybe if boss is near to death and you want to push in some more dps, and you might not make it with LB, CL might prove useful. Other than that, I'm not using it at all myself.

[Kazuku65]

Was it a single target fight?

yea i currently never use it unless it hits more than 1 target

The point where chain lightning becomes obselete on singletarget fights is when you got your lightningbolt at the GCD. It just might be that you're not at the "hastecap".

im at 1370 w/ bizuri's up, 1.3 second LB's with totem and bizuri's

[Foxhoundn]

yea i currently never use it unless it hits more than 1 target

im at 1370 w/ bizuri's up, 1.3 second LB's with totem and bizuri's

I mean... i dont work with RawR only ehnsim, but is there an option if the fight has only boss or boss with adds like in EnhSim?

[Kazuku65]

yes, after looking through the options there is one to modify the # of targets, its currently on 1 and still has CL in the suggested rotation

[Foxhoundn]

yes, after looking through the options there is one to modify the # of targets, its currently on 1 and still has CL in the suggested rotation

Is it the latest version? or i dunno dont work with rawr maybe when ill get home from work i could have a look at it :/

[jertagadlafrata]

rawr

I found your problem. Just go to a target dummy and dps him using both rotations until oom a few times each. There is no need for a 3rd party program when you can just simulate a boss fight in game. If your working on rotations i would recommend buying some haste food for your tests to simulate the 3% haste from boomkin if you raid with one. Ele provides most of it's other dps increasing raid buffs so using a target dummy will be fairly close to a patchwerk like raid boss. If you want you could even run around it and move in and out to simulate non patchwerk like raid fights.

[whowherewhat?]

Rawr (at least for me) has begun to slide alot for calculating my theoretical dps. I think that the people running it (correct me if i'm wrong) haven't updated the elemental priorities since like patch 3.2 : /

As to chain lightning, I've heard that the time to drop it out of your rotation is when CL gets GCD capped (not lightning bolt) so that would probably be around what your haste is. At my level of haste (1214 with totem) my CL cast time is at 1.04 seconds so I still cast it if I don't have any outside haste sources (EM, glove enchant, heroism, etc.).

Something new I saw in a different thread stated that LB actually beats out CL at lower levels of haste than what's required to GCD cap it due to SP scaling, however I've yet to see math backing that up. Does anyone have this information?

[Arcsecant]

I think theoretically CL will always be a DPS increase as long as LB is over 1 sec. This doesn't translate well over to actual raiding because of latency. The shorter your cast the more it will be affected by your latency. Try to sim it with Zap! and see if you have the same results. I'm not sure how up-to-date the elemental portion of rawr is.

I remember reading on Zamir's blog that at 3800 SP CL will do 7% more damage than LB. The 7% is taking into account lightning overload only having an 11% chance to proc on CL AND the 4% increased damage to LB from glyph of LB.

All in all the very slight dps increase might not be worth the extra mana usage, your call. But during BL and other hasted effects a LB, LvB spam would be the way to go.

[Anaeradranax]

Rawr (at least for me) has begun to slide alot for calculating my theoretical dps. I think that the people running it (correct me if i'm wrong) haven't updated the elemental priorities since like patch 3.2

I started helping out with the Rawr.Elemental module earlier this month (I've been a member of the project since early February, but didn't really have available time due to classes).

Rawr 2.3.15 was the first time that chain lightning was calculated in rotations. The math and everything was already in place for the spell, but it wasn't calculated into the rotation. 2.3.15 also brought about fire nova in the project. Searing totem and magma totem should make their debut in Rawr.Elemental in the next release.

I'll look into the chain lightning calculations to see if something's off.

[ilialilov]

Anyway ... its not a steady thing. If your lava burst is going off cd before you can manage to cast a full lightning bolt chain lightning is always better. Yes 0.2 sec MATTER!!!

[HidaRonin]

I don't think CL is EVER good in single target rotation. Maybe if boss is near to death and you want to push in some more dps, and you might not make it with LB, CL might prove useful. Other than that, I'm not using it at all myself.

Nice logic you got there. Why not push in more dps throught the whole fight instead of just when hes about to die

[Xade]

The Elemental TTT was just updated. If you HAVE been keeping up on theorycraft, you would have known that there are no levels of haste to be shooting for.

All your questions can be answered in this article:
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t82625-shaman_elemental/

Chain Lightning IS still good when used in the right way. You can use it when the CD on your Lava Burst is less than the cast time of your Lightning Bolt, thus keeping your "rotation" tighter.

[whowherewhat?]

The Elemental TTT was just updated. If you HAVE been keeping up on theorycraft, you would have known that there are no levels of haste to be shooting for.

All your questions can be answered in this article:
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t82625-shaman_elemental/

Chain Lightning IS still good when used in the right way. You can use it when the CD on your Lava Burst is less than the cast time of your Lightning Bolt, thus keeping your "rotation" tighter.

not to sound nitpicky but the thread doesn't actually say that this is the dps increase it refers to; it just says "if used correctly." either way it most definitely implies that XD

[Hazzardous]

Nice logic you got there. Why not push in more dps throught the whole fight instead of just when hes about to die

I think he means that if the boss is going to die in 1.1 seconds, a LB/LvB wont hit whilst a CL will hence, getting a tiny bit more damage done.

[Shalae]

I tend to only use CL in two situations which is either multi target or if I'm about to clip my LvB casting a LB. Other than that it's just solid LB and LvB spam during BL and EM and my Hit trinket (Damn HC Muradins still not dropped QQ).

[Gilian]

The point where chain lightning becomes obselete on singletarget fights is when you got your lightningbolt at the GCD. It just might be that you're not at the "hastecap".

Give more inaccurate information. LB at GCD? You will need almost full ilvl 277 gear with DFO, maybe then.

Just use CL when you don't have enough time to cast a LB before LvB gets of cooldown. Or when there is more than one target.

CL got nerfed a long time ago so on single target fights it does not do as much damage anymore. You are also glyphed for LB. Maybe it's a dps increase when you have almost no haste, but still it's so little.

I never use CL anymore on single target because my haste is so high. If i would cast a CL because my LvB CD is shorter than my LB cast you would be talking about 0.2 seconds or less. Not to mention latency. I also rather watch what is happening around me and not die than increasing my dps from 11500 to 11550.

[Cyclonus]

im approaching haste cap (ICC10 25 gear) and i just stick to LB LvB. I find that CL is a slight increase, however

but when you take into account my latency (250-300)
the next cast module in wow (seems to work better with me spamming LB)
and the slight delay in me quickly checking my cooldown bar and pressing another button

i find its virtually the same + alot easier to stick with LB LvB