Serious Topic (Improving WoW PvP)

[Gohan]

Im not really gonna sit here and talk about Class skills or Balancing spells etc.

This topic has been on my mind for a long time and I've come to share thoughts with people.

The main arguments are these

Battlegroups .

Playing wow as a pvper I enjoy facing diversity, I enjoy knowning i can PwnRoflStomp 98% of my competition.

What bothers me is knowing that I only have 1/13th of the us population available to me to be outplayed by my preparation/talent (wink)

Most other Competitive games you have the chance to face anyone who is willing or matchup against you.

But WoW seems to have limited this drastically.

The fact is there may be 11 million users worldwide. This is alot, but wow is a diverse game for a disverse population. You can role play.... Kill the Environment(pve) ... you can do endless quests on your alts...

Not everyone who plays wow has the same EnD Game objectives!


So what I want to see happen is Turning the Page for wow PvPwise. Merge Battlegroups together and open up the Gates of Real competition.

I come from Mal Ganis US. A server which dominates its battlegroup, I can count on both my hands the Number of Relentless Gladiators we have and being a Gladiator Here, aint even that special.

When you look at Stormstrike battlegroup its basically Mal Ganis listings + few good teams from other realms.



The current Battlegroup system worries me alot. Alot of PvP has died off because of Ingame changes for example!

Battlegrounds are no longer farmed for honor as they were in TBC = Drastic drop in total number of Battlegrounds being played.



The Upsides to Increasing the Number of Players in the Salad you will get things like

Fierce high ranking competition (2800+)
At the moment each battlegroup has its Elites and they seem to have a genuine lack of actuall real competition.

Low level battlegrounds (more fish to fill up the lakes)
Lowbie Bgs have died off, at some times of the day You simply cannot join one. Everyone who loves pvp loves to hop on an alt and change up the playstyle for a few minutes.

Twinks could be worthwhile ... For example lvl 29 twink bgs... lvl 70 twinks... These kinds of characters would have a chance to play the game the way the player intended! You turn off exp gain and you wait maybe a Bit longer then with xp gain. Currently once u turn off XP Bgs are Non-existant.
Perhaps even 3v3 lvl 70 competitions. These kinds of things are currently NONEXISTANT but i guarantee alot of people would love to change this!

4v4 and 5v5. The 4v4 braket is an idea I heard about for cataclysm. Without an increased diversity of teams all playing together I dont see how these brakets would be a fun competitive environment to participate if things do not improve.
At this time 1000 rated 5v5 is among the top 200 teams of the 5v5 braket. Therefore the number of teams actually fighting each other is super low and the chances teams will rematch several times is great.
Not to mention on Mal ganis doing 5v5 will basically end up You Facing a team from Mal ganis and then deciding the Q dodge them.

Rated Battlegrounds!
From Mal ganis perspective I dont doubt I will be in very good Rated BG teams. But I fear our alliance counterparts will not be able to withstand our profound love for pwning and will cower in fear and no longer engage us in battle. (many times during my wow career I have seen alliance side of Stormstrike not be able to handle constant defeat and all together stop Playing bgs... Look how Alterac Valley played out, once alliance realized they would not win more then 1/20 games all the community gave up!)

And the other thing. playing at high intensity and rating Arena sometimes finding oponents is hard! I mean in the early afternoon you basically won't face teams worth more then 1-2 points some days!
In my head I am imagining this problem on the scale of 15 versus 15.

Therefore at certain times of the day You wont have opponents!


A real WoWPvP community would emerge! People who play to slay have simply absorbed what we are given (class skills/tweaks) we have been able to suggest class balancing but generaly speaking we are the minority compared to all the other players who in our opinions wander the world aimlessly with trivial objectives in there sights.
With a community so large yet so divided I dont see how we can ever really be a community!


The Challenges!

Blizzard Belives that because of the New Rated BG rewards everyone will flood into them!
I dont buy that! I think that WoW will be reduced in this expansion as it was in WotLK. Not to mention that in the short future new games are going to be released that are intentionally trying to surpass world of warcraft to try and provide players with not just an alternative but possibly a better game!

Just like Diablo 2 and Starcraft the multiplayer aspects of those games has died down! The difference here and now is! WoW generates profits and therefore should improve to keep its users!

If PvP is not improved I can guarantee alot of the serious pvp community will leave wow for good leaving a less refined PvP world. And PvP may just become a lame part of playing wow if the situation does not improve in the eyes of the people who Play to Slay!

I've come here to write this crap thread and hopefully catch the attention of people who feel the same way about PvP as I do!
And perhaps Blizzard Entertainment will show us some love by coming up with an improvement to PvPWoW!

[Crosscut]

I read your entire wall and enjoyed it. Not one ffs or omfg in there. I agree with a good deal of your sentiments even though I don't really pvp that much(only when I need gems). One thing I disagree with though is twinks. Of course I can see the work that goes into a succesful twink but I still don't like them. I mostly pvp on lower level alts and even though I can't reliably beat someone with heirlooms I currently stand a chance. This is because people have about the same quality of gear at lower levels. Sure, dude A might have more blues than dude B but thats about it! Twinks are nearly extinct because of the exp in bgs and I like that. Getting oneshot over and over and over is not fun. Its just frustrating.

Anyways, I serously think you should post most, if not all, of this on he official forums where a blue or two might read it. You have some seriously good suggestions in there and some of them might even make it into the game.

[Ormula]

I would enjoy seeing every battlegroup merged together. I don't know if it is a hardware limitation or not, but if that's the case then there is honestly not much we can do to fix it.

[sithorion]

I really had someway the same idea as you.

just make a ranking: if you're in the top say, 100, you play in one bg, and then every month or so you demote or promote. Make some awards for it if you end in the top 10. That way it will be competitive, makes you keep playing and most of all: it gives newbies the chance not to be roflstomped by imba full wrathfull players.(that's what bothers me, if I go play bg's on my mage I just get outgeared by everyone around me, I lose my fun in it)

[Elanale]

I disagree with one point in particular- that the faction on a battlegroup that currently dominates will continue to do so when rated BGs go active. I predict the opposite, actually- the faction that generally wins is going to be doing a lot of losing: they are not accustomed to fighting organized, competent opponents.

Expect to see a lot more tactical complexity in BGs in Cata. Skilled BG leaders will devise battleplans that eschew (and undermine) the old zerging method utilized by a lot of people. Faction will become largely irrelevant: the difference between winning and losing is both the battleplan you go in with and how quickly your general will adapt to changing conditions on the battlefield.

[Eeyno]

It'll be intresting to see what the rated battlegrounds will bring to the table. I don't enjoy arenas as much as I love battlegrounds as many battlegrounds have objectives besides just kill the other guy and there is some strategy other than which button to mash based upon what the other guy just did.

Arena's killed PvP for me and the I am hoping the new battleground system will bring back some of the folks I used to do BG's with that have since quit due to Arenas being the dominate form of acquiring gear for PvP.

[Elanale]

It'll be intresting to see what the rated battlegrounds will bring to the table. I don't enjoy arenas as much as I love battlegrounds as many battlegrounds have objectives besides just kill the other guy and there is some strategy other than which button to mash based upon what the other guy just did.

Arena's killed PvP for me and the I am hoping the new battleground system will bring back some of the folks I used to do BG's with that have since quit due to Arenas being the dominate form of acquiring gear for PvP.

I don't know. Rated BGs require a very different mentality than the old honor system (the only time that BGs were the primary venue for PvP gear). Quite frankly, I always found the old honor people to be frightening as hell. The grind was inhuman; tactics were almost irrelevant. Zerging was very much prominent in AB in those days, and zergs suck.

[Spurmwhale]

imo server merges and battlegroups is what killed what little sandbox there was left. the competitive aspect is the worst thing to happen to the game, especially considering very few really even care to compete in a rpg, relative to the population that games it. the only thing leading them to do it is the loot factor. the more and more this game veers towards instanced ladders for everything the worse it becomes. i really hope a company can step up and make a working game with content on the level of blizzard, but with more traditional mmorpg pvp structure. competitive mmorpg'ing just doesn't work imo, when 3/4's of the player base isn't really competitive. and to even be competitive in gear these days you have to raid and arena...

[Blackmask]

For along time I have wanted a merger of the battle groups. In my battle group horde seem to win about 75% of the time. This might not be true but it seems to be the case. If Blizzard were to compile all the battle groups there would be a better evening out of the battle grounds.

With that said the new-ish LFG system might be effected by a change like that. Currently as a dps only it can take up to 15 min until you are put into a random group. I'm not sure about other battle groups but merging all the battle groups might make that wait time be longer.

Pros and cons I'm afraid.

Another idea is a battle group shuffle, switch up the servers in the battle groups so you could meet and kill new people.

[Seragan]

Blizzard don't just sit down and go "hur dur lets put some serverz togetha for da pvpz and stuff leik thatz!".

If you have paid attention Battlegroups go down when there is a sever problem. This is because Battlegroups are based off of Data Centre locations. If there is a problem with a data centre there is a problem with all of the Battlegroups located at that data centre. The reason they are split off like this is if for example someone who plays on Moon Guard (Seattle Data Centre) comes up against someone who plays on Blackrock (Los Angeles) and the game is hosted on the east coast (cause it could happen if they pooled all the resources), then that is going to disadvantage everyone. The only thing they can do is pool all the Battlegroups that are in the same Data Centres (i.e. Vengence and Bloodlust which are both physically located in LA).

Other than that, this never will happen because of physical limitations. Of course 50 years from now when everyone has 1000 bazllionbit Fibre connection to their houses this may be possible. Until then, no.

The only thing they could do is create PvP specific battlegroups in which they only allow arena. This would pool all of the competition into one place (sort of like what Bloodlust is at the moment [the peak of pvp awesomeness (from what I've heard)]). But, this wouldn't work because everyone would just go there and overload the data centres in one place. Of course this would also mean terrible latency for overseas players/players on the other side of the US.
^
P.S. LIKE THE ARENA TOURNAMENT LOL.

[Ilikeforums]

AMG WHERES THE TLDR

[Wizie]

Imo, i would LOVE to see some kind of.. ''Search and destroy'' battleground?

Abit like, in Mw2, where you win by either destroying their base / defending your's. Or by killing every single one of them, with no respawn.

Imagine it in rated, it would be all about team play and not just about charging into the enemy blindly knowing that if you fail you will respawn within 30sec just to do the same thing OVER and OVER and OVER again.

It would be something where it comes down to how you play tacticly.

Would love to see that tbh

[mypally]

From my understanding of it, the only reason all of the US battle groups dont pvp together is basicaly a physical limitations. Not on our system as an above poster said, but on the servers that blizzard has. It already has to do a fair bit of work to do what it currently does. And using what little I remember of my comp sci classes, increasing the number of players by an order of magnitude could result in anywhere from 10 - 2^10 more computing being done, depending on how they do the coding.

Id love to have the entire US to go against, but I honeslty dont mind the way it is now. Mind you, I am pretty casual, pvp around 1900, and get 1-3 BG's in a day.

[lolimatree]

Spread the word guys! http://lordaeronfrontiers.weebly.com/index.html

The viable alternative we need!

[bw13187]

Something in a battleground to make you value your own life would be great. Team deathmatch with limited respawns, but then of course the team with more healers would probably win. But in rated BGs, that would be part of the strategy.

I also think a cool BG would be like an arena BG. Say ten people per side. Before the match starts you pair off into groups of 2, say, by entering little cages on each side of the arena.

Match stats, first cage on each side opens up and bam. Quick little three minute arena match. If no one dies in three mins its a draw. Next match. and so on. Most wins per side wins the BG! In case of tie, one tiebreaker match will be held between say...two random teams that both won. Or maybe 4 random players. IDK. I guess this idea wouldn't jive too well with the rated bg system, but it would be nice to be able to get honor for arena matches, and itd be cool to spectate.

[fyllesjuk]

It'll be intresting to see what the rated battlegrounds will bring to the table. I don't enjoy arenas as much as I love battlegrounds as many battlegrounds have objectives besides just kill the other guy and there is some strategy other than which button to mash based upon what the other guy just did.

Arena's killed PvP for me and the I am hoping the new battleground system will bring back some of the folks I used to do BG's with that have since quit due to Arenas being the dominate form of acquiring gear for PvP.

THISis epic! i really think we need more objectives, other then "cap the flag" defend a base" assualt a base and so on.