Do you think ferals will be able to go full dps and tank in cataclysm?

[Mortifie]

I really thought they would prevent this by making you choose one mastery or another through a talent. With them announcing that your mastery will change based on your form though and the fact they want to add more "fun" talents, Im wondering if we will be a able to get all the mandatory talents to go full kitty and bear in one spec. What do you think?

[littlepiggy]

They don't want us to be able to effectively dps and tank at the same time, we would be TOO useful. They'll make sure certain moves are still bear only or cat only so that we won't have enough to do anything other than what we have now.

[Shadowysaint]

They said they want arms to be able to sword and board and be able to tank dungeons, (idk about heroics), so why the hell not?
But srsly you shouldn't ever ever ever ever go half and half on a spec because you wanna do both.

[Norcyz]

I think there's something to this. If you do get the mastery bonus via the forms (and having enough points in feral). And if you can spec full bear and have any points leftover for the "fun" talents they describe. Then people will skip the fun talents and stick them in the kitty ones.

Presently it's the limited number of talent points that restrict you to spec'ing as Bear or as Kitty. In Cata, if you've any talent points leftover after spec'ing full Bear (for example) then how will they restrict you from putting points into Kitty?

They can either implement a 'lot' of talents that differ between Kitty and Bear specs and that are all mandatory (Still not sure how they'd leave points for "fun" talents this way). Or they can restrict you from getting the tanking mastery bonus and the Kitty mastery bonus at the same time .. in some way?

[Epoch]

They said they want arms to be able to sword and board and be able to tank dungeons, (idk about heroics), so why the hell not?
But srsly you shouldn't ever ever ever ever go half and half on a spec because you wanna do both.

More then likely ferals wont be able to, blizzard will use the "your a hybrid so you shouldnt be on par with primary classes in terms of dps" or something to that effect; doesn't matter that we are no longer a hybrid when we are specced in cat or bear.

[Ruan]

Still wondering how blizzard intends to think up 76 points worth of "fun" talents.

[Kraddark]

More then likely ferals wont be able to, blizzard will use the "your a hybrid so you shouldnt be on par with primary classes in terms of dps" or something to that effect; doesn't matter that we are no longer a hybrid when we are specced in cat or bear.

Cept the reason you do less dps is not because you are a hyrbid but because you bring utility such as battle rez, heroism, and blessings that a rogue, mage and hunters can't.

Maybe when they give battle rez to a rogue and blessings to hunters (simply examples) Hybrids can do equal dps....

regardless lrn2dualspec.

[Jon]

They said they want arms to be able to sword and board and be able to tank dungeons, (idk about heroics), so why the hell not?
But srsly you shouldn't ever ever ever ever go half and half on a spec because you wanna do both.

5-mans are one thing, any kitty can already go into bear form and tank a heroic instance.

In Cata, ferals will still need two different specs for tanking and dpsing anything harder than a 5-man.

[Heywes]

5-mans are one thing, any kitty can already go into bear form and tank a heroic instance.

In Cata, ferals will still need two different specs for tanking and dpsing anything harder than a 5-man Heroic*.

quick fix.
Even when you first hit 80, heroics are doable with kitty spec'd tanks (unless blizzard makes it more difficult in cata in which i will be wrong).

[Norcyz]

5-mans are one thing, any kitty can already go into bear form and tank a heroic instance.

In Cata, ferals will still need two different specs for tanking and dpsing anything harder than a 5-man.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you. But I would like to see a quote where Bliz states this. I can't recall reading one. And I'm just curious how they're going to limit you to spec'ing either Bear or Kitty.

[Scunosi]

I believe Blizzard has stated that they want the other tanks to be more like bears, that is, you hit the uncrit-cap by one thing, at the moment, talents. In Cataclysm, they intend to make it so just being in the right presence/form/stance will make you crit-immune. Now that I say that, I'm not sure how that'll work for pallies, devo aura maybe? But anyways, I'm sure that since bear form will take care of your defense even without the current talents, the rest of the talents will likely be as they are now, that is, Berserk having a different effect in both forms, talents buffing different abilities for each form, etc.

[Oajng]

I believe Blizzard has stated that they want the other tanks to be more like bears, that is, you hit the uncrit-cap by one thing, at the moment, talents. In Cataclysm, they intend to make it so just being in the right presence/form/stance will make you crit-immune. Now that I say that, I'm not sure how that'll work for pallies, devo aura maybe? But anyways, I'm sure that since bear form will take care of your defense even without the current talents, the rest of the talents will likely be as they are now, that is, Berserk having a different effect in both forms, talents buffing different abilities for each form, etc.

maybe, idk... righteous fury?

[Auroro]

I think blizzard should fix SI for kitty. Make it more of the kitty being corner by the boss and its' damage is boost up.

[Seraphk]

Masteries are tied to how many tiers / how deep you go into a tree based on what I've seen in screenshots & their general explanation of it. It's unlikely that I'm wrong, but masteries should change nothing in the aspect of being able to switch between tank and dps roles.

Nothing is going to change from how things are now. You need tanking glyphs versus dps glyphs to tank better, you need tanking talents versus dps talents to tank better -- Vice versa. Can you tank Heroics right now as Kitty spec? Sure. But, you lose out on your Frenzied Regen and Survival Instinct glyphs along with major mitigation / rage generation.

If anything, it's other classes that will be changing since they enjoyed the crit immunity through talents for bears. Expect to see similar offensive stats for other classes on their gear now allowing them to be more interchangeable as tanks and DPS.

As for the people bringing up hybrid utility, it was arguable a long time ago (soul shards / Mage-Hunter-Warlock CC / Mage buffs), lost a lot of steam in BC (misdirect / special % damage buffs via talents), became negligible in WoTLK (tricks of the trade / every class can heal itself in some form except Rogue / Replenishment granted to Mages+Hunters / Warlocks provide same spellcasting damage benefits as Ele Shamans), and now it's like beating a dead horse in Cata (time warp = Bloodlust + personal buff to Mages / Rogues can now heal themselves / Hunter pets will provide most any major debuffs lacking in a group). There is no longer any unique utility that any one class can bring to the table. Thus, there is nothing holding any "hybrid" back. If your expected role is to tank -- the only thing that matters is how much damage you take, if your role is to dps -- the only thing that matters is how much damage you can put out, and if your role is healing -- the only thing that matters is your ability to keep people alive no matter the circumstances.

[Norcyz]

...
Nothing is going to change from how things are now. You need tanking glyphs versus dps glyphs to tank better, you need tanking talents versus dps talents to tank better -- Vice versa. Can you tank Heroics right now as Kitty spec? Sure. But, you lose out on your Frenzied Regen and Survival Instinct glyphs along with major mitigation / rage generation.
...

I'm just wondering about all the comments indicating Bliz was wanting to have you be able to spec for your main role and have a few leftover talents points for "fun" stuff in the tree. If they do this with Feral, I'd think folks would spec for one then use their "extra" talents, skip the fun stuff, and use 'em for the other side of their kitty/bear spec.

[exochaft]

Long story short, Blizz already had to deal with the issue of druids being great tanks and kitty DPS in the same spec back in BC, and they will do everything in their power to make sure it will not happen again. Too many classes complained about it, and rightfully so.

[Biznick]

Its obvious that blizzard will avoid it. We can tank now, but were not "optimal." It's likely to just stay that way.

[Leetbeartank]

They said they want arms to be able to sword and board and be able to tank dungeons, (idk about heroics), so why the hell not?
But srsly you shouldn't ever ever ever ever go half and half on a spec because you wanna do both.

Cat druids can go bear and do this right now...

[littlepiggy]

I'm just wondering about all the comments indicating Bliz was wanting to have you be able to spec for your main role and have a few leftover talents points for "fun" stuff in the tree. If they do this with Feral, I'd think folks would spec for one then use their "extra" talents, skip the fun stuff, and use 'em for the other side of their kitty/bear spec.

i could be wrong, but i don't think their definition of fun talents was something that could be skipped and have no effect on you. i have no clue what sort of talent that could be, but either way as most everyone has said they won't let us be a tank and dps (effectively) at the same time.

[Cortano]

To answer the original poster: DEFINITELY.

Long story short, Blizz already had to deal with the issue of druids being great tanks and kitty DPS in the same spec back in BC, and they will do everything in their power to make sure it will not happen again. Too many classes complained about it, and rightfully so.

That was before dual specs. Now, no one cares.

At the very highest end progression raiding, there is never a good reason to give up ANY DPS/survivability/whatever just to cram two roles into a single spec. I don't think its any secret that the primary focus of game balancing is on this high level content which most players never really experience.

For every other level of content, you can put together a very viable tank+dps feral spec that is capable of filling both roles. For example, a PuG-ICC10 that is going to kill the first 4 bosses then go home. So you give up 0% survivability and 4% threat as a tank, 5% DPS as a cat, and don't have any PvP talents.

In Cataclysm:

Talents:
- There will be more 'flavor' and 'fluff' talents, which means there is room to max one role, and pick up the high impact talents of the other role. You might not be 100/100 but you can be 100/95.

Gear:
- Armor Pen is going away, Agility will probably be back as a top DPS stat
- With larger health pools, stamina will probably lose ground as a tanking stat (less risk of being gibbed) to agility (help reduce mana spend)
- You will probably need to still keep two separate sets of gear, but there will be more overlap.

Mastery:
- You core cat and bear skills are baked in.


The real question is what does that actually get you? Save 1000g on dual specs? The ability to heal as well as dps/tank? How many classes would actually WANT a healing off-spec anyway? or begrudge anyone one?