1. #1

    Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Considering all the disappointment that seems to be on these forums about Blood becoming the dedicated tanking tree I have considered what is the point of this QQ. I first considered that Death Knights are labeled as the scrubs more than any other class and I wholeheartedly agree and this is due to the ease of leveling to 80. Another attribution to how this is the noob class is the Blood DPS spec. It is genuinely the one easiest specs out of any dps class in WOTLK right now and that attracts kids to and players with low skill to this class. They might have tried Unholy or Frost which are more complicated and require more management for a good dps increase over Blood but went back to Blood because THEY could do better dps as Blood. (I'm only considering few ICC 10 gear with mostly T9 stuff because honestly that is the gear level that these kidns of guys are at) Eliminating this spec is a good purge for the DK population because some will quit some will reroll or some might actually learn how to play a DK to its optimal level. Has anyone considered this pro of this change?
    Actually I have a real life, I'm just on my friends computer while we have a drink around his house before we go BMX'ing down the castle near by his house and found all the geeks spouting rubbish.

  2. #2

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Personally im not 100% happy about blood being the dedicated tanking tree.

    Yes, I tank as blood myself, but thats only because its superior for single target tanking, which is all I do. But it goes against the creation of DK's being able to DPS or tank in any tree, which is what attracted me to the class in the first place. But an AoE tanking buff is required for blood tree to make it totally viable imo.

    As long as they leave frost dps as it is, I will continue to use my lil gnoam as my main however.

    “Video Games don’t affect Kids. If Pacman had affected us as Kids, we’d all be running around in darkened rooms munching Magic Pills & listening to Repetitive Electronic Music”

  3. #3

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    I don't really see how this is going to make the dk community any better. I can't really imagine the bad players mass rerolling due to the supposed difficulty of frost and unholy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystana
    But it goes against the creation of DK's being able to DPS or tank in any tree, which is what attracted me to the class in the first place.
    This is bad class design and has been demonstrated to not work well at all.

  4. #4

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira
    This is bad class design and has been demonstrated to not work well at all.
    I couldnt disagree more...

    Each spec has its pro's and its cons.

    My guild has 3 solid dk's: DPS wise I am frost, another is blood, and another unholy... this brings 3 different buffs to the raid..

    Tank wise: Frost and unholy are great for AoE (frost better imo) and blood is superior for single target, eg. bosses.

    How this is a bad class design I do not know? Please elaborate...

    “Video Games don’t affect Kids. If Pacman had affected us as Kids, we’d all be running around in darkened rooms munching Magic Pills & listening to Repetitive Electronic Music”

  5. #5

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    He is talking about it is demonstrated that tanking in each tree is not to par with other tanks. If too many talents for tanking where in one tree it would become the tanking tree and if they were added to all then we would be OP in PvP. The DPS balance is ok right now but the tanking is certainly not (who frost or Unholy tanks end game? those talents are wasted in the frost and unholy when they are not used regularly)
    Actually I have a real life, I'm just on my friends computer while we have a drink around his house before we go BMX'ing down the castle near by his house and found all the geeks spouting rubbish.

  6. #6

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira
    I don't really see how this is going to make the dk community any better. I can't really imagine the bad players mass rerolling due to the supposed difficulty of frost and unholy.
    Because for frost to be competitive you have a .5 sec window to hit pestilence ----> difficult for these kinds of players
    EDIT: also management of KM procs and Rime Procs and the management of hitting UA without screwing up the rotation or rhythm of the dps is way beyond the capacity of these kinds of players
    For Unholy the difficulty as much but they are the kind that like big numbers and burst which turn them away from the ramp up time of the unholy tree
    Actually I have a real life, I'm just on my friends computer while we have a drink around his house before we go BMX'ing down the castle near by his house and found all the geeks spouting rubbish.

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk Yosef1015's Avatar
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    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    i am for this change 1 million % i hate blood dps its sucks its easy its just stupid unholy is fun and good for aoe and frost is just a blast why go blood?

  8. #8
    Mechagnome whowherewhat?'s Avatar
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    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abhor
    Because for frost to be competitive you have a .5 sec window to hit pestilence ----> difficult for these kinds of players
    For Unholy the difficulty as much but they are the kind that like big numbers and burst which turn them away from the ramp up time of the unholy tree
    Its less that the .5 second window is difficult and more that it depends if the server likes you at that moment

  9. #9
    The Patient
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    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    I was more disappointed by the loss of Frost tanking then Blood DPS, to be honest. But whatever, I rock the Unholy DPS. I love it.

  10. #10
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    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    retards cant do damage, regardless of spec. ive seen arcane mages in mostly 251 pull 5k dps, where i did almost 7k in mainly ilvl 232 (alt). so i dont rly consider noobs having to dps without blood spec a pro.

  11. #11

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abhor
    Because for frost to be competitive you have a .5 sec window to hit pestilence ----> difficult for these kinds of players
    EDIT: also management of KM procs and Rime Procs and the management of hitting UA without screwing up the rotation or rhythm of the dps is way beyond the capacity of these kinds of players
    For Unholy the difficulty as much but they are the kind that like big numbers and burst which turn them away from the ramp up time of the unholy tree
    Moot argument.By the time blood is no longer a dps spec,neither will DKs be GCD-bound,thanks to the rune system changing.

    And anyways,I don't see what the whole fuss about blood is;its exactly as hard a Frost and Unholy are to dps with.They're all riding the GCD pony ,and unless you consider different sequences of button mashing to be hard to master then I'm at a loss over why would Frost or Unholy for that matter be considered any harder (seriously if by now people have trouble getting used to juggling a couple of procs into their rotation,why are they even playing proc-based classes?).

  12. #12

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abhor
    Considering all the disappointment that seems to be on these forums about Blood becoming the dedicated tanking tree I have considered what is the point of this QQ. I first considered that Death Knights are labeled as the scrubs more than any other class and I wholeheartedly agree and this is due to the ease of leveling to 80. Another attribution to how this is the noob class is the Blood DPS spec. It is genuinely the one easiest specs out of any dps class in WOTLK right now and that attracts kids to and players with low skill to this class. They might have tried Unholy or Frost which are more complicated and require more management for a good dps increase over Blood but went back to Blood because THEY could do better dps as Blood. (I'm only considering few ICC 10 gear with mostly T9 stuff because honestly that is the gear level that these kidns of guys are at) Eliminating this spec is a good purge for the DK population because some will quit some will reroll or some might actually learn how to play a DK to its optimal level. Has anyone considered this pro of this change?
    Blood is actually not that easy to play. You have to keep a lot of things in check etc. It's just as hard as say, Unholy. I play as blood because I like the style, as I'd rather hit hard than fast, and I'd rather be doing all the damage rather than my pet.

    People who play as a DK automatically get a bad rep because it's an 'easy' class, when in fact, it's really not.
    There are easier classes. Hunter and paladin for example.

    I'm not excited about Blood becoming the tanking tree, but that just gives a chance to play other DPS specs. I'll prolly try DW Frost in Cata, just to see how it pans out. It won't really matter, because I'll be tanking more and making my druid my main, but still.
    There are good people in every corner of the planet. Unfortunately, the Earth is round.

  13. #13
    Deleted

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Unholy has always been the easiest DK spec to play, from the Infinite Scourge Strikes of Naxx to the 10 Second Rotation of ToC. I honestly don't know how anyone could ever think Unholy is difficult. It has never had to use GoD, AoE is incredibly easy and Pet Management has been turned into a non-issue with the buff to 90% damage reduction.

  14. #14

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    when spec'd and glyph'd right, frost dps puts up respectable numbers and its fun. It reminds me a little of a ret pally. more priority and procs than rigid rotation.

  15. #15

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    In the current iteration of the game, you have to take into account the pros and cons of each DPS spec as they currently stand.

    * Blood - 2H single target (and double target to some extent) spec that relies heavily on physical damage and armor penetration. It has a fun "interactive" cooldown (DRW) and a rapid-fire strike-heavy rotation that is tight but can be slightly flexible depending on the encounter. Brings a good but easily replaceable AP buff.

    * Frost - DW spec that can be strong on both single target and AoE fights. Damage is split fairly evenly between physical and magic damage. Priority-based rotation that feels dynamic primarily due to procs. Does not have any really fun cooldowns (UBA isn't very interesting). Brings a good melee haste buff that can also be provided by shamans.

    * Unholy - 2H spec that can put up huge numbers in AoE encounters and performs well in single-target situations. Relies heavily on pet damage, though obviously not to the extent of a hunter. Has a fire-and-forget cooldown that is non-interactive; interactivity comes from controlling pet and possibly using Ghoul Frenzy (not normally taken). Brings an almost-irreplaceable magic damage buff that is put up with no extra cost -- it can only effectively be substituted on single target fights by a couple other classes.

    Personally, I DPS as blood and have tried every spec multiple times. I created my DK to hit heavy with physical attacks, two-handed weapons, and diseases. I favor blood because I detest pet classes -- in all honesty, if there was a way to be competitive without using the permanent ghoul, I'd switch to unholy without much fuss. I don't mind frost, but I've always enjoyed it more as my tank spec. If I played frost, I'd want to play with a 2H weapon. I may end up switching to DW frost in Cataclysm if 2H isn't made viable for frost, unless they take away the requirement of the pet for unholy.

    While I might be able to put up higher numbers with DW frost or unholy right at this moment, I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy it as much. Enjoyment always has to factor in to your decisions when it comes to WoW. It's a game, meant to be played to have fun. If you don't enjoy playing a spec, don't play it. I understand some people feel that they "have" to play nothing but the "best" spec, regardless of how much they dislike it; that's not for me.

    While I'm not fond of GearScore, mine is 5547 currently and I put up 7.5k DPS on Festergut in my 10-man regular ICC raid group. I'm sure there are people out there that will laugh at that, but I've never been anywhere but the top of the charts on single-target and almost all multi-target fights. This is, as I mentioned before, as blood DPS. If I could pull 1000 more DPS, but hate playing the spec while doing it, I wouldn't do it.

    Just my two cents.

  16. #16

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deltamarine
    In the current iteration of the game, you have to take into account the pros and cons of each DPS spec as they currently stand.

    While I'm not fond of GearScore, mine is 5547 currently and I put up 7.5k DPS on Festergut in my 10-man regular ICC raid group. I'm sure there are people out there that will laugh at that, but I've never been anywhere but the top of the charts on single-target and almost all multi-target fights. This is, as I mentioned before, as blood DPS. If I could pull 1000 more DPS, but hate playing the spec while doing it, I wouldn't do it.

    Just my two cents.
    A thousand dps is quite a bit man and you are the exact kind or person I was referring to.
    Actually I have a real life, I'm just on my friends computer while we have a drink around his house before we go BMX'ing down the castle near by his house and found all the geeks spouting rubbish.

  17. #17

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    A thousand dps is quite a bit man and you are the exact kind or person I was referring to.
    A thousand DPS is quite a bit, man. Then again, I did go out of my way to clarify that fun has more appeal to me than maxing my DPS.

    I don't mind having different view points, but there's no need to infer that I'm a scrub, noob, or ineffective player. I'm perfectly comfortable where I'm at, and I'm sure I get enjoyment from the game in ways you don't, and vice versa. I understand that we are likely on opposite sides of the fence here, but no need to try to call me out on something I already expressed in my previous post. You seem to be concerned primarily with "having the best spec", whereas I am primarily concerned with "having fun playing my spec."

    The type of person you referred to in your original post appeared to be those that play blood because it's the "easiest" spec, or because they can't do as much DPS as frost or unholy. I never claimed that I couldn't do more DPS if I wanted to change specs. In fact, last time I tried DW frost I did output a bit more damage than as blood, and that was without having a lot of experience with it; I went back to blood anyway because I didn't enjoy the play style as much. If I wanted an easy spec I'd play my mostly abandoned paladin that hasn't seen much action since vanilla.

    Also, so the discussion doesn't degenerate too far, I'm completely open to changes coming down the road. Hopefully, and very likely, the changes to the frost and unholy trees in Cataclysm will make them appeal more to me (and others that enjoy blood) and allow me to enjoy those specs more than I do right now.

  18. #18

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    Play how you like but when you are in an ICC and your raid can't kill a boss and there are some classes that are 1k -2k dps below someone else of the same class then there are serious issues to discuss. Over the course of a fight that be 10% more damage done by the higher dps player and possiblly even more in 10 man
    Actually I have a real life, I'm just on my friends computer while we have a drink around his house before we go BMX'ing down the castle near by his house and found all the geeks spouting rubbish.

  19. #19

    Re: Going from Blood to Another DPS Spec.

    No argument here, just an observation.

    To boil things down, we could say perhaps more accurately:

    You: Possibly down the boss at the possible expense of having fun (if you don't enjoy a particular spec).
    Me: Have fun playing the spec of your choice at the expense of possibly not downing the boss.

    If winning or losing a boss fight comes down to your individual DPS spec choice, then either you're seriously lacking, or your raid could very likely improve in several other areas to much greater effect. This of course ignores hard modes where you might be pushing for every last ounce of effectiveness, specific boss fight mechanics that might specifically favor a certain spec, etc.

    A lot of my posts have been based on personal experience and preference, and I'm certainly not advocating for people to take a spec blindly. Indeed, I was advocating the opposite and outlining what I saw to be the strengths and weaknesses of each spec from a DPS standpoint, and giving my point of view along the way.

    If you or your raid leaders feel that a particular spec is going to be required to beat an encounter, by all means consider switching specs. But if you end up taking a spec just because its theoretically the "best" spec, and you don't enjoy it, you've got to ask yourself why you're playing that class, or even the game, in the first place.

    I can assure you that me playing blood has nothing to do with my usual raid's ability to defeat a particular boss fight, considering that I far and away top the DPS charts and don't do so at the expense of dying in fires or doing the wrong thing. I could probably top the charts more with a different spec, but why? I'm not interested in carrying my raid's DPS any more than I already do. Putting out an extra 1K DPS on a fight where we wipe at 50% isn't going to let us win. And ya, my raid group isn't the best in the world, but they're all my friends and I respect them, even if they make mistakes at times.

    As with anything, what you get out of this game should be what you want to get out of it, not what you feel you are "required" to get out of it.

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