Disenchanting in Random Dungeons

[Cactrot]

kudos on not thinking about everything.

Is leather or ore gathered by a skinner or miner worth something to the person who gathered it?
Yes it is, it's still mats. For all we know they have a secondary proff that needs it, leatherworker or engineer/blacksmith

Is it worth something to everyone else?
Yes it is, AH, sell it.

Is mats gathered from disenchants worth something to the person who can turn items into it?
Yes it is, Disenchanting is a part of enchanting. He can use the mats to create something else

Is it worth something to everyone else?
Yes it is, AH, sell it.

Everything is worth something to everyone.

If people can collect on the work of enchanters, then why cant enchanters collect on the work of others?
If people can roll on disenchants, then everyone should also be able to roll on Ore, leather & herbs
If no one can roll on disenchants, then no one should be able to roll on Ore, leather or herbs.

It is the glorious saying of "Quid pro quo"

If there is no skinner or miner, do you get the ore or leather that has value? No.
If there is no enchanter, do you get an item that has value? Yes.

Took 2 lines to show the gigantic hole in your reasoning.

[ComputerNerd]

Yes there may be a flaw in that there is nothing obtained should a gatherer not be present, but it is not the right of anyone else to benefit from our profession without our choice in the matter, while we cannot from theirs.
We have to share the results, they do not therefore either it should be all professions or none.
Some dungeons in particular suit some professions at least equally, if not a hell of a lot more than enchanting, since those with a load of beasts will see huge benefit to skinners, mechanicals for engineers/miners.

Should the rolling for others ever come up, then someone can simply choose to if they really want to not gather something, therefore deny everyone the chance.
Not looting a boss for drops is not an option, so again enchanters would be at a disadvantage through lack of choice.

[Windspast]

I think you're making stuff up rather then reading my post. But from what I understand, you'd join an instance, roll greed like everyone else, and take your 20% of the loot and go home and DE.

The new system changes this because... you still average 20% of the loot. Your problem is that you have an issue with other people getting BoP's DE'd. Why is that an issue exactly?

Because I should have the rights to refuse service to you.

There we go

End of thread.

This change takes away the rights for enchanters to say no to your greedy ass for wanting a free DE and that's not really right.
This is never about enchanters being greedy. It's always been the normal people being lazy. Instead of going out there like before and making an attempting to actually find an enchanter, blizzard conviniently provided a lazy button for lazy people so they can automatically get their stuff DEed without even asking anyone.

Well Enchanters should have the rights to refuse service. Every other profession have that right to refuse service.

Before you would actually have to ASK someone NICELY to do things for you. Just like you had to ask a rogue NICELY for him to open your lock box.

Now, in our lazy, I don't give a damn society, any rude ass can just demand it to happen. I DEMAND IT! I DEMAND YOU TO DE MY ITEMS!

[Windspast]

There are easily half a million enchanters in WoW. You skill isn't special, nor hard to level, nor does it give you any say in what other people do with their share of the loot.

Oh really? Oh wait half a million? Then go ask them to do it for you. Are they in this instance right no?? No?? Wait the final boss dropped a BoP item and you won it? You want it in shard form instead? Oh wait I don't want to DE it for you? Oh wait there's half a million other enchanters who will DE it for you?

Oh really? Half a million? Sure let's go ask them... oh wait... you can't, cuz they AREN'T IN YOUR INSTANCE

Alot of you obviously love this auto DE option because you guys are the ones taking full advantage of it.

well I say helloz no. I reserve the rights to deny service.

No shirt
No Effort
No Brain
No Effing service.

[Offhand]

I reserve the rights to deny service.

Too bad the LFG doesn't.

I'll get any one of the non douchey enchanters to enchant my shit. I'll get my alt or a guildie to do it for me. The DE'd materials from any BoE aren't yours, BoP's aren't any different, except for the fact that you want to be a dick about them (because, let's not lie, being a dick about it is exactly what your logic leads to).

The LFG disenchant roll means you aren't some kind of special BoP arbiter anymore. If you're upset about this, let me break out the world's smallest violin.

Under the old customs, enchanter greed rolled and DE'd for everybody, everybody wins. Under the new system, everybody DE rolls and everybody wins. All that's changed is you no longer reserve your right to be a dick about things, the old customs are still in place, just assisted by the new roll system. I'm beginning to think that the people upset about the DE changes are the same guys who bailed after you let them roll on all the shit by themselves. Yeah, I can see how this change sucked for you. :

[Gizen]

Two things. First, people ninjaing stuff in heroics for any reason is just being a dick. However, this isn't an enchanting thing, this is an 'you're never gonna see these people again so why not' thing. I've heard of tons of people doing it, not just enchanters.

Second, the disenchant button is retarded. The issue here is that it's a double standard. Enchanters are being forced to share their profession, where no other profession has to do this. No, enchanters have no more right than anyone else to just TAKE the loot. The loot is divided up between everybody equally, that's what rolling is for. However, the ability to then disenchant the items after they've been handed out should be reserved for the enchanter and the enchanter alone, in the same way that only herbalists, miners, and skinners can collect their respective resources. That's their perk for actually having raised the profession. This whole 'well if it wasn't for the group you wouldn't have gotten those mats' argument falls apart because not only does it work the other way around too (no enchanter = no mats), but also because bosses don't drop enchanting mats, they drop blues and epics. Non-enchanters aren't doing anything whatsoever to earn those mats.

EDIT: It's like if you were running an instance with a rogue, and a lockbox dropped, and the rogue was then forced to open it for you even while you stood there and insulted, trash-talked, and were just an all-around douchebag to him. The right to refuse service is sometimes used by the profession maker as an excuse to be a dick, but more often, it's used as an excuse to make other people stop being dicks. And now there's no longer any way to do that if you're an enchanter.

[fxrs]

Two things. First, people ninjaing stuff in heroics for any reason is just being a dick. However, this isn't an enchanting thing, this is an 'you're never gonna see these people again so why not' thing. I've heard of tons of people doing it, not just enchanters.

Second, the disenchant button is retarded. The issue here is that it's a double standard. Enchanters are being forced to share their profession, where no other profession has to do this. No, enchanters have no more right than anyone else to just TAKE the loot. The loot is divided up between everybody equally, that's what rolling is for. However, the ability to then disenchant the items after they've been handed out should be reserved for the enchanter and the enchanter alone, in the same way that only herbalists, miners, and skinners can collect their respective resources. That's their perk for actually having raised the profession. This whole 'well if it wasn't for the group you wouldn't have gotten those mats' argument falls apart because not only does it work the other way around too (no enchanter = no mats), but also because bosses don't drop enchanting mats, they drop blues and epics. Non-enchanters aren't doing anything whatsoever to earn those mats.

Well stated

[spicie]

A ninja is a ninja no matter what reason you do it for!!!

[PBitt]

I'm an enchanter, and I guess I really don't see the difference...people pretty much always greeded on every green that dropped and I always split the shards at the end unless everyone bailed in which case...oh well.

[Deleted]

Ima really enjoying the DE option in randoms.

The way I click the button it takes advantage of a minor aspect of the Enchanting profession to create the mats for me, AND THEN goes right ahead and enchants a piece of my gear.

Ok, compromise. All enchanters get to disable the option, OR it gets removed from the game completely, BUT they get the ability to create enchant scrolls or enchant other peoples gear taken off them.

Surely if the disenchanting side of things is the MAIN part of your profession, this compromise won't be a problem.

Somehow I think otherwise.

[Lexxe]

I like the DE button. My priest was formerly an enchanter, and I would more than happily disenchant something for someone if they asked me to, or if it was decided that I collected it all and disenchanted at the end.

As for the argument that you don't roll on mining/herb/skinning from an instance... When did you level a separate profession just for that one thing? Did you level Enchanting and Disenchanting so that you could fuel your enchanting? or Disenchanting and Mining for the gold? Your profession has its own gathering profession built into a profession that everyone needs to use end game. So if they use the mats or sell the mats, you're still getting tipped at the end of the day.

[Glisern]

kudos on not thinking about everything.

Is leather or ore gathered by a skinner or miner worth something to the person who gathered it?
Yes it is, it's still mats. For all we know they have a secondary proff that needs it, leatherworker or engineer/blacksmith

Is it worth something to everyone else?
Yes it is, AH, sell it.

Is mats gathered from disenchants worth something to the person who can turn items into it?
Yes it is, Disenchanting is a part of enchanting. He can use the mats to create something else

Is it worth something to everyone else?
Yes it is, AH, sell it.

Everything is worth something to everyone.

If people can collect on the work of enchanters, then why cant enchanters collect on the work of others?
If people can roll on disenchants, then everyone should also be able to roll on Ore, leather & herbs
If no one can roll on disenchants, then no one should be able to roll on Ore, leather or herbs.

It is the glorious saying of "Quid pro quo"

If there is no skinner or miner, do you get the ore or leather that has value? No.
If there is no enchanter, do you get an item that has value? Yes.

Took 2 lines to show the gigantic hole in your reasoning.

Actually, it only took two lines to show how narrowminded you could be.

Ore or leather, are just one item. They have no altered states. Ofcourse if there is only an enchanter and miner in the group, then the group should be allowed to roll on those two, and not leather.

However, Items that are disenchantable have two states. Item and mats. no enchanter to disenchant, means you cannot alter the state of items. but which is worth more? unless it is needed by someone who needs to equip it, the worth is more in disenchanting (unless it's infinite dust (if I remember correctly))

Try not to bash other peoples view, but rather improve on the to improve the general thing we are talking about. Common sense. Another to fix it would be the enchanter being able to choose whether or not to make the DE button available when he joins a group, or as another member said put a price on it. Press DE and the enchanter gets blabla s for his services.. Of course, that price would require a roof of how much, and the enchanter cannot press DE himself to avoid the money, but can only greed

[SPC7R0]

I allways press need on everything i can in the last bosses... it was hard to level up my enchanting i dont want any noobs taking my abyss cristals ffs... the DE roll thingy was the dumbest thing blizzard could add to the game, we dont have a "CUT GEM ROLL" when someone mines the cobalt ores in UK and a Scarlet Ruby drops why should we have a "GIEF ME DE MATS FOR FREE ROLL" ?????

[Zygersaf]

I know this may sound shady but here is my out look on this..I Raised my enchanting skill up to be able to DE in heroics but with the new Disenchant button everyone gets to profit off my work. Do I get to roll on leather from skinning? Or Ore from Mining?

So yes I will need role on 1 item either Epic or blue to get a shard per run..I Feel as its a fair swap for you being able to profit off my skill..

i see where your coming from, but think how many shards you can get from a hc whereas you wont get a single bit of ore, baisically your jsut selfish :P lol sure i dont share what i mine or engineer but all of that is useless to toehr people, atleast other people need the mats from enchanting

[Baron01]

Auto-disenchanting option is absolute best thing that was introduced to the game in a long time. Im saying this despite having enchanter myself. The option has helped me to increase my stocks of enchanting mats 10x because not only my enchanter but all characters can now benefit from BOP drops. I have not lost anything by introduction of this change, only gained a huge amount of free mats. Thanks Blizzard, you did good for once.

[Shisonaru]

I am not an enchanter on my main...but I have this to say about it....if it is an item I don't need or can't sell for a good profit I roll disenchant...not to sell the mats....but to save the mats for enchants that I may need in the future....Occasionally I do sell but my intent when I roll DE isn't for profit it is for the betterment of my gear...The better the gear the better the dps in the long run...the better the dps the faster a mob goes down...faster the mob goes down the quicker the instance is...the quicker the instance....the more dungeons can be done in a period of time....See you spent all your time to lvl your enchanting...which helps me...which in turn helps you...the more instance you can do the more chances you get to roll de yourself and keep the mats....plus the added bonus is if your lvling Enchanting even if you don't get the mats...you still get points toward lvling it therefore making it easier to lvl enchanting....in my eyes it is win win....

[xlord]

for the people that say remove the disenchant button, would you need on the random drops if the button was gone?
dont think so, so it will still be 1 of the guys that wins, with the de button its just in mats and not in items.

its sad if you lvled enchanting from 1-450 and not get 1 piece in a run while there are more than enough drops.
but shit happens.