Ways to Improve Fire?

[Taketheblack]

I've been playing my Mage for the first time in a long time (since September/October-ish) and decided to devote my second spec (since my PVP gear was way too out-dated) to a Fire PVE Spec.

I must say, I've really been enjoying myself. Certainly, whenever I raid I go as Arcane, but for trash pulls and 5-mans I find myself preferring my Fire Spec. It's a really great spec (especially on AE pulls ), but I've noticed one main problem with it: Fireball.

I think a lot about Fire works very well, like:
- Living Bomb (love it)
- Scorch (way better since the removal of the need to Scorch-bot at each pull)
- Pyroblast w/ Hot Streak (really is the highlight of the Spec...works great on a lot of levels)

but Fireball really sticks out like a sore thumb. There's really no talent that makes it interesting like Hot Streak does for Pyroblast, and the Glyph (at least from what I've read), is not particularly useful.

So how can we change this? If you could change the way Fire works, what would you do to improve it? Let's make this more interesting. Whenever you post your change, rate/evaluate the change of the person above you.

For Me:
I would change the rotation up and the tree a little bit. I'd like to make a talent that lets Fire Blast criticals reduce the cast time on Fireball, so that your rotation might look like:

LB, Scorch, FBlast, FBall, then FBall 'til FBlast is off CD, then FBlast, then FBall...all the while Pyroblast whenever Hot Streak procs.

Is it perfect? No, but it's at least something they could do to make Fire a bit more fun and, probably, increase the spec's potential for DPS. I'd really like to have a second raid-viable spec that can compete with Arcane's damage

[Telric]

I would run with that idea. Except, I'd like it so that Fire Blast critical hits (35%?) have a chance to make your next Fireball instant cast. Nice for mobility. Could help Fire's PvP situation as well.

[crypttr]

Fireball TTW specc is on par with arcane in icc gear right now. So I dont see the problem tbh.

Fire is allrdy more fun then arcane.

[Swizzle]

ummm, the main nuke is boring? i wonder how interesting shadow bolt, lightning bolt, mind flay, and wrath are...

fire blast is a weak ass spell, and needing to use a weak spell to prop up the strongest main nuke in the game (yes, fireball IS the strongest main nuke in the game) seems pointless, coupled with the fact that the fireball glyph is absolutely sexy.

needless thread is needless and bad changes are bad.


final addition: fire and arcane are equitable, with both having distinct advantages and disadvantages over the other, it seems there is simply a skill issue here.

[andriustin]

ummm, the main nuke is boring? i wonder how interesting shadow bolt, lightning bolt, mind flay, and wrath are...

fire blast is a weak ass spell, and needing to use a weak spell to prop up the strongest main nuke in the game (yes, fireball IS the strongest main nuke in the game) seems pointless, coupled with the fact that the fireball glyph is absolutely sexy.

needless thread is needless and bad changes are bad.


final addition: fire and arcane are equitable, with both having distinct advantages and disadvantages over the other, it seems there is simply a skill issue here.

ahh gotta leave dick comment to bring your post count up...cool bro...cool

[Taketheblack]

Not sure about Shadow Bolt and Mind Flay..but..

Lightning Bolt has Lightning Overload and Wrath spam leads to Eclipse which leads to Starfire spam which leads back to Wrath spam...

Both of these seem like much more interesting mechanics then "Spam Fireball until Hot Streak is ready..."

Made the thread in the hope of eliciting discussion on the ways to make a rather static rotation into something a bit more fun. Sorry I didn't consider your Min/Max-BiS tables for Mage DPS when I was speculating. Shouldn't you be on Elitist Jerks yelling at Arcane Mages who don't want to use Molten Armor?

[Lechife]

Its the idea of the whole Mage Class have a primary (spam) ability and build stuff around that.

Arcane Blast > Missile Barrage > Occasionally Barrage (situational)
Frost Bolt > Fireball / Frostfire ball > Deep Freeze
Fireball > Pyroblast etc

Get the idea?
I Ghostcrawler defended this point times ago when people QQ-ed that mages do lot of dps without any hard rotation like Feral Druid or Shadow Priest

It's nice that you have ideas to improve Fire in some sort of way to make it more interesting
But I don't see that happening since this is the way it has always been.

[Spiry]

I find there's a balance between the overly complicated dps systems (shadow, cat, enhancement) and the faceroll (arcane, retribution). Fire, for me, is this balance (likewise Balance is too >_>).

I enjoy fire, and find that I don't end up mindlessly spamming, like arcane, but can react and move, and generally have more fun.

My only issue is that in most people's eyes arcane > fire for pure DPS, and fire thus gets pigeonholed into being "for fun". It needs maybe a couple of numbers tweaked up (LB tick damage maybe) to bring it to a line where people don't immediately default to arcane.

Leave the fire style alone for now (see what they plan for scorch in Cata), but just put a number up somewhere.

[Swizzle]

Not sure about Shadow Bolt and Mind Flay..but..

Lightning Bolt has Lightning Overload and Wrath spam leads to Eclipse which leads to Starfire spam which leads back to Wrath spam...

Both of these seem like much more interesting mechanics then "Spam Fireball until Hot Streak is ready..."

Made the thread in the hope of eliciting discussion on the ways to make a rather static rotation into something a bit more fun. Sorry I didn't consider your Min/Max-BiS tables for Mage DPS when I was speculating. Shouldn't you be on Elitist Jerks yelling at Arcane Mages who don't want to use Molten Armor?

lightning overload is a proc that isn't controlled at all by the player: Lightning Overload
i fail to see how THAT is more "fun" than a user controlled and used proc.

eclipse leads from spamming one spell to spamming another, again, rarely different or more "fun" than what a fire mage goes through.

the point is, you're eliciting discussion over something that doesn't need or warrant discussion. you don't realize or take into account that arcane and fire do equitable DPS, with fire pulling AHEAD of arcane on some encounters, so i don't know who "defaults" to arcane. another thing to note is that wrath is almost over and all the trees are getting reworked with fire getting a new spell for its rotation and two new mechanics to play with.

your list is needless and superfluous.

[Rugz]

Lightning Bolt has Lightning Overload

"Spam Fireball until Hot Streak is ready..."

I know which one of these seems more fun to me, guess what, it's the one that means you have to push a different button to cast a different spell as a reaction, not just see a copy of your spell passively fly at the boss.

[Odexy]

lightning overload is a proc that isn't controlled at all by the player: Lightning Overload
i fail to see how THAT is more "fun" than a user controlled and used proc.

eclipse leads from spamming one spell to spamming another, again, rarely different or more "fun" than what a fire mage goes through.

the point is, you're eliciting discussion over something that doesn't need or warrant discussion. you don't realize or take into account that arcane and fire do equitable DPS, with fire pulling AHEAD of arcane on some encounters, so i don't know who "defaults" to arcane. another thing to note is that wrath is almost over and all the trees are getting reworked with fire getting a new spell for its rotation and two new mechanics to play with.

your list is needless and superfluous.

Oh shit, someone thinks something would be fun and you don't.

[Swizzle]

Oh shit, someone thinks something would be fun and you don't.

explain how something you don't interact with is more fun than something you interact with? is porn more fun than actual sex?

[Odexy]

explain how something you don't interact with is more fun than something you interact with? is porn more fun than actual sex?

Maybe if you're asexual.

Regardless, what fun is can be subjective.

[Deleted]

explain how something you don't interact with is more fun than something you interact with? is porn more fun than actual sex?

Depends on if you're in the video.

[Swizzle]

Maybe if you're asexual.

Regardless, what fun is can be subjective.

and by this you mean when you say something is fun no one can contradict you? if i thought killing jewish babies was in any way fun, i'd expect 800000000 posts telling me that it wasn't (i don't by the way). fun is subjective to a degree, but again his points were wrong on many counts, which i took the time to point out and correct.

hmmm, actually, let me put it in a way an average touchy feely person could understand (since logic and reason don't work here too well):

hey guyz, i think fire is fine because it ummm, dooes good DPS ;D better than arcane sometimez i thinkzor that we should like talk aboot the changes the fire spck is geeting in cataclyzm snce woltk is almost oover :'( and all the trees are getting changed

[IceHowler]

Make Combustion have 10s duration instead limited charges will make fire more interesting in a bloodlust situation. For now he have good sustained dps but nothing to do when a burst is needed. Make 3 min cd again and 10s duration instead charges and think about all possibilities of

Molten Fury+BL+ pop Trink+Mirror Image+Combustion = WiN

[ejzo]

make pyroblast hit like it looks like it should

[Swizzle]

Why would you use Scorch? It's a waste of time and a waste of a cast to even bother, it's damage isn't remotely close to what Fireball does

Start your rotation with: LB, Fireball, Pyroblast [Only when Hot streak procs] otherwise that 1.15 sec cast of a scorch is wasted when you can cast a fireball that does more damage with a DoT anyways. Scorch is bad.

HEY WAIT JUST A GOSH DARN MINUTE...

[Vetis]

Why would you use Scorch? It's a waste of time and a waste of a cast to even bother, it's damage isn't remotely close to what Fireball does

Start your rotation with: LB, Fireball, Pyroblast [Only when Hot streak procs] otherwise that 1.15 sec cast of a scorch is wasted when you can cast a fireball that does more damage with a DoT anyways. Scorch is bad.

Improved Scorch is bad? crit chance increase is bad that helps proc other things and overall raid damage? sure it sounds terrible because you want moar deepeess

[Swizzle]

Improved Scorch is bad? crit chance increase is bad that helps proc other things and overall raid damage? sure it sounds terrible because you want moar deepeess

affli and demo locks bring the same buff with no cost to personal DPS.