TBC vs WotLK Heroics

[vesseblah]

In patch 2.3 the Revered requirement was reduced to honored, and I can't find anywhere where it says you have to be level 70 in order to enter heroic instances. Please refer to some documentation if possible when it comes to you needing to be level 70 to do heroics in TBC

There was no level requirement to enter heroic instances at the start of TBC, you just had to have revered reputation with the appropriate faction. Requirement to enter raid instance was 65, and I assume it was the same for heroic instances since those used the same mechanics.

Don't know if the minimum level was changed at some point for TBC, but I do know for a fact that I did heroic Black Morass as level 68 holy priest (rest of the group were 2x69 and 2x70) for my very first TBC heroic instance about week and half after TBC launch. Doing heroic BM was really popular for for healing priests and druids for months because getting the key there was easiest of all factions and exalted reward was epic cloth +healing bracers. Also BM dropped quite many nice spellpower items for shadow/balance offspecs.

You could get keyed to CoT faction in one afternoon easily. Run OH once in normal (minimum level 66), run BM once in normal and you're at 5/12k honored for completing the storyline. Then half-dozen normal mode instances of either OH or BM to ding revered for the key. OH was nearly impossible to do in the original tuning, requiring 1.5 tanks and 1.5 healers and 2 CC and 20-30 wipes in the first half. Real killer was patrols on 5min respawn timer (all would pop back after each wipe) and the limited attempts (3) during second half or Thrall would die permanently. BM on the other hand was totally doable even as lv68 healer kitted in all possible normal mode blue gear if you were prepared to chug down 10-20 mana potions during the instance.

[6kle]

I too some extent disagree that the TBC heroics were overtuned, I did Shattered Halls heroic as a blue (blues from normal instances) geared protection paladin with a level 63 Naxxramas geared holy paladin. No CC used at all.

I also did every other heroic instance with mostly the same setup (but the dps was not the same players)

edit: This was also done pre-nerf

Cool story. A tank with blue gear from normal instances was dead before you could blink your eye if you tried to just aoe the harder trash pacs in a pre-nerf Shattered Halls. I was healing the same instance often and even when I had full quality epic gear and chained my strongest heals (after swapping full healing output gear and trinkets and shit activated) on a fully epic geared good tank they would simply sometimes die between the heal casts. Checked from Grim Reaper and it showed them often go from 100% health to dead in 1,5-2 seconds, faster than my big heal could land on them and the smaller fast heals were not enough healing output even with the best spellpower gear and spellpower trinkets activated. So excuse me if I remain sceptical of your story where you ran in with your utter crap geared tank, healed by a low level and didn't even find it necessary to use any CC.

BTW: MGT == Icecrown 5mans. The difference is that now everyone has the gear to do them and that AoE is far more powerful than it used to be.

(I'll add that you can get wipes on PoS too if you're not careful in some spots
- bad tanks on garfrost who follow him to the forges.
- The "hill of death" post-ick (I.e. Flamebringers first and get someone to interrupt the caster as much as possible.)

I don't think the difficulty level is the same. I still see these below tank dps players clearing ICC 5 mans. The only thing that I have seen pugs have some problems with is the HoR first encounter waves and I think even that is easier than the harder bits in MGT because you can, once again, ignore CC and just aoe it while MGT required some planning and CC to get past the "Pvp" encounter and nastier trash pacs.

[Geex]

I wish WoTLK heroics were as challenging as TBC heroics were. Instance design wise it's about even, but WoTLK heroics AOEing 100% of the time is not fun.

[Dragoona]

Each heroics have there own part to it. Like for instance i think i prefer the WotLK instance designs. But i said that in TBC comparing them to vanilla. Its because you run something so many times you get bored of things.

WotLK heroics where a challenge when you started them in the gear you entered them in at. But are now all AoE fests because ppl just out geared the instances so fast.

In general i think TBC heroics where a lot more fun. Everything even towards the end of BT/SWP geared players still used CC in certain instances. May have been a lot less but it was still used. Yet everything these days is a self challenge of i wonder if i can pull all 2+ packs and survive and keep aggro.

Come cata, you will prob get 6-7 months in the expansion and this topic will be the same again; but comparing cata to wotLK heroics.

Times are changing. Just move on. If you dont like the heroics dont do them.

[tibben]

Cool story. A tank with blue gear from normal instances was dead before you could blink your eye if you tried to just aoe the harder trash pacs in a pre-nerf Shattered Halls. I was healing the same instance often and even when I had full quality epic gear and chained my strongest heals (after swapping full healing output gear and trinkets and shit activated) on a fully epic geared good tank they would simply sometimes die between the heal casts. Checked from Grim Reaper and it showed them often go from 100% health to dead in 1,5-2 seconds, faster than my big heal could land on them and the smaller fast heals were not enough healing output even with the best spellpower gear and spellpower trinkets activated. So excuse me if I remain sceptical of your story where you ran in with your utter crap geared tank, healed by a low level and didn't even find it necessary to use any CC.

Yes. Anyone who claims they tanked Heroic Shattered Halls pre-nerf with no CC, a low level healer, and blue dungeon gear is so full of crap it's spilling out of his ears. I want to see the video of this because I would literally eat my own shoes if you can prove it. There is absolutely no way that he did what he claims to have done. I don't care how awesome you are at the game, if you didn't have at a bare minimum full T4 gear with a level 70 healer that also had at least mostly T4 you weren't going to go through Heroic Shattered Halls without any kind of CC. It was not even possible. This guy is obviously just seeking to boost his low self-esteem by spouting off some ridiculous nonsense about how he achieved the impossible. I bet he soloed Heroic MgT the day it came out wearing nothing but a fishing pole and a smile too, right?

[tibben]

Who needed full kara epics for heroics? That's so not true.

Not for all of them that is for sure. But for some of them (Shattered Halls for instance) it was next to impossible to run without T4 gear and that's with a couple of CC classes. The gauntlet was absolutely ridiculous without a Kara geared tank.

[Azharok]

Not for all of them that is for sure. But for some of them (Shattered Halls for instance) it was next to impossible to run without T4 gear and that's with a couple of CC classes. The gauntlet was absolutely ridiculous without a Kara geared tank.

I did SH:H in full blues on my Prot Warrior, you just need a good tank , and watch-out for the gladiators (man those things could wipe a group in like seconds ....)

fun times !

+ the fact that every enchanter had to grind that place to get savagery

[Rukie]

If RDF existed during TBC, then TBC would take it. TBC heroics were more fun because they were a bit more difficult, not to mention when the revered rep was a requirement there was mostly non-retards running them.

[Memory]

+ the fact that every enchanter had to grind that place to get savagery

On my server enchanters grinded SH normal for savagery.

[Gron]

Interesting to see only 11% of people approved of WOTLK heroics - that says it all!

[Mosotti]

"All the people who go "whats the point in hard heroics, people only use them to get badges", are the exact same idiots who are making the game what it is now"

Dude, the only idiot is the one that does not understand that heroics are not mandatory. You don't have to run them like a robot. NOBODY who is overgeared has to run old heroics to get gear at the end of the expansion. The others, who are NOT overgeared, are happy to get the gear faster, without CCing every spider. So, it's like this: an idiot is a t10 cretin who runs heroics and then complains heroics are easy. And I'm sure it will enter the official dictionary soon

"Interesting to see only 11% of people approved of WOTLK heroics - that says it all!"
It says nothing really. It says only: from all the people who read this thread and bothered to vote, x% preferred something. In fact I'm pretty sure that the changes in the game, the so called nerfs, are based on more accurate statistics done by Blizzard, to maximize the satisfaction factor on the GENERAL POPULATION, not the "hardcore" players, who can raid for hours and then do heroics for some more hours, mob by mob.