Why sub hate?

[Nabuza]

Im lvling a rogue to do pvp with. Currently i am 66 and I'm sub spec. Thing is I can easily own 69 DKs (i use DK because its no secret they are strong at that lvl, this is not to say DKs are OP in any sense)

Thing is I hear people saying sub isnt good for pvp and that it erally isnt good for anything. Do these people not know what Im talking about or is it at 80 that sub becomes an obsolete spec, right now im loving the pwnage i bring out with it.

[Zarghol]

Game isn't balanced around pre-80 PvP.

[Deleted]

Sub will always roflstomp one on one, vs nearly everything. The high burst, the cooldowns, the high surviveability. Add in an enemy healer, and suddenly the DK wont die in a stunlock. When he turns on you, you'll get hell.

+ 9/10 sucks at PvP, and 8/10 that levels up sucks even worse.

[Stevegasm]

I've never done arena on my rogue, so the PvP I'm talking about is Battlegrounds. But for that scenario, subtlety spec is extremely effective. And no, you won't win the fights as much. What you get is great mobility and the ability to snipe nodes, flag, shadowstep up to turrets, and so on. Basically, do a lot of the background work that helps win battles. I found it really fun. Other than BGs and WG, it's not too strong.

[Undercovercracker]

BGs will be the main source for pvp come Cataclysm thank god so...

[Lixi]

I'm leveling my horde rogue sub all the way to 80 (she's 72 currently) and leveling up through BGs is very fun as sub. Keep in mind at levels under 80, not all classes have solid rogue counters. Sub at 80 is way different. Mostly it's a gear ratio (strictly talking BGs) and resilience has more impact on 80 sub burst.

But yeah, sub is wicked lower levels. Plus your 60s DKs playing BGs have only been playing their toon for 10 levels or so. Not many grasp the finer details of DKs by then. I have run into a few good ones BGing through the 60s, but not many. Most trouble were mages (shocker there) and warriors. Well, and being caught without any CDs. ;D

Subtlety is fun, that's for sure when leveling up.

[K4ge]

Sub will always roflstomp one on one, vs nearly everything. The high burst, the cooldowns, the high surviveability. Add in an enemy healer, and suddenly the DK wont die in a stunlock. When he turns on you, you'll get hell.

+ 9/10 sucks at PvP, and 8/10 that levels up sucks even worse.

Bullshit
against anything with heal or plate mutilate will roflstomp sub in 1v1 (that being said, rogue is a HORRIBLE duel class right now)

[Galith]

Bullshit
against anything with heal or plate mutilate will roflstomp sub in 1v1 (that being said, rogue is a HORRIBLE duel class right now)

This.
As a holy Paladin PvP'er when the gates open and I see a stealth and no buffs and I just go "great.. I hate poisen damage" but if it's a sub rogue instead of a mute it's just like... "LOLOLOL FREE WIN". (H-Paladin + Warrior)

[Sea Beast]

rogue is a HORRIBLE duel class right now

Troll harder man, you should at least try....

editamn I really fucked up my post.

[K4ge]

Die in a fire, you carried by spec prick
Ask ANY top player of any class right now, rogue is pretty much useless in duels right now. Hell, even mages are more afraid of warriors at the moment

[Aelith]

always have hated to fight rogues in pvp, always will.

[Sea Beast]

Die in a fire, you carried by spec prick
Ask ANY top player of any class right now, rogue is pretty much useless in duels right now. Hell, even mages are more afraid of warriors at the moment

Coming from the guy that plays RMP.

I play resto too, holy crap now I'm some sort of god like player because I play a shitty spec. That's how it works right?

[K4ge]

No, you're not. You play elemental as a mainspec (or at least always log out as elemental) on a shitty bg in a cheesy comp.

You don't have the foggiest clue about current arena or duel balance and you're trying to flame me for rmp which is not only moderatly difficult to play but at the moment way overrated.
And to top it all off, you really STILL seem to think that rogues are a good duel class?
Against what are rogues good again? Oh right, we can defeat warriors. And... that's about it.

[Sea Beast]

To imagine you can't beat ele shamans in duels, you must have some Really aweseme teammates carrying you.

Also look at your avatar when you read this.

[K4ge]

I'll admit I haven't duelled elemental shamans in a while.
But even then, what can a rogue realistically beat every duel?
Warriors
Everything else is either balanved or so blatantly out of the rogues favor, it isn't funny anymore. Every healer, every mage, destruction warlock, shadow priest should never lose to a rogue. Even an affliction warlock should always beat a rogue.
The only class I haven't duelled extensively is hunter, because, well, there seem to be none

And to the elemental shaman issue: the top elemental on our server said it was a pretty even match up, but I haven't gotten around to duelling him yet :/

[Sea Beast]

You should be beating moonkins too

[K4ge]

Ok fine, I also beat fire mages, holy priests and fury warriors

[Nabuza]

As I mentioned at my level I can one on one a DK. Cheap Shot, Hemorrage, Ghostly Strike, Kidney, Hemorrage, Hemorage, Eviserate, Blind, Stealth, Cheap Shot, Shadow Dance, Ambush, Ambush, Vanish, Ambush. I do this and I'm fine 1 v1. bring in a second class and i Preperation, CLoack of Shadows if i need to and vanish, sprint.

Here is my armory

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...in&cn=Sakunade

I dont know if my spec is going in the right direction or not for either of my specs, but Its been working pretty well for me so far.

I didnt put this up to be a "OMG noob" moment. I am in no way calling myself a rogue master, but any kind of constructive critism (constructive being the key word) and reasons to support any claims will be taken with much appreciation.

[Lixi]

I would suggest putting the 2 points in Waylay. The benefit is nice and an alternative to crip if you want to use something else on OH. I don't use cheat death below 80. I would recommend putting those points into Malice since crit is a huge aspect of sub.

On the glyphs, I would replace crip poison with something more useful like CoS or ShDance.

Other than that, sub is all about how you want to play. Enjoy!

[DakeshiSB]

I'll admit I haven't duelled elemental shamans in a while.
But even then, what can a rogue realistically beat every duel?
Warriors
Everything else is either balanved or so blatantly out of the rogues favor, it isn't funny anymore.

ehehehehehe. Sounds like someone is whining because he's not god in pvp.