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  1. #21

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart
    Just finished to raid, and yet again I'm depressed.

    Putricide HM

    Shaman 3M and 7k HPS
    Druid 2.8M and 6.5k HPS

    Me + other HPriest 2M and 4,5-5k HPS


    I'd even agree on that if they have a complex and difficult rotation to use.

    71% heals from Chain Heal
    66% heals from Rejuvenation

    What's the point of being holy again?
    heh... yeah... and how much of that was overhealing?
    Oh yes, there is a method to my madness O.o
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We generally consider 0 / 0 / 71 builds to be a failure.
    ^win

  2. #22

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    In my experience, for 5 man holy is better only because you can heal with only 2 buttons. Target the tank, do PoM and CoH when the others are low health.

    For 10 man, it depends on you raid comp. If you go with a druid, you better stay disci, if you go with a paladin just stay holy.

    For 25 man, a disci priest is almost mandatory.

    IMHO

  3. #23

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    i was in the same position as you. I made my priest soley for the reason of healing. I leveled as shadow, and disc in instances. When i dinged 80 i knew i wanted to raid heal, so respeced holy as main and disc as secondary spec. Ill be honest i dont think i have used the dual spec more than twice (besides switching to see my stats with new gear). I loved disc leveling. But holy seems to make more sence end game. I will use disc every so offen though because it is great damage prevention, and u do need that in some fights.

  4. #24

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart
    Just finished to raid, and yet again I'm depressed.

    What's the point of being holy again?
    Our chief skillset is aoe burst healing, aoe burst healing and mobility, mobility and aoe burst healing. Our *two* skillsets are mobilty and aoe burst healing, and a wide range of cooldowns. Our *three* skillsets are mobility and aoe burst healing and a wide range of cooldowns and an almost fanatical dedication to our class. Our *four*... No... Amongst our skillsets... Amongst our skillsets are such elements as mobility, aoe- I'll come in again.


    Always look at the bright side of life?
    Lightwell is very shiny

    It really hurt to make this joke, when the original called for "ruthless efficiency". :-\
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  5. #25

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    I have been healing as Disc since TBC. If you learn to play your class well you will NEVER have issues onless you get plagued with a retarded group.

    A short break down of holy vs Disc play styles...

    Holy:

    People take damage...you heal them up or they die. Especially if the damage is consistent and recurring.

    Disc:

    You mitigate damage...implying that instead of highly depending on topping off those health bars, you are working more to stop them from taking damage and then healing them.

    With your PoS pulls before the cave, as someone has mentioned before..shackle is your friend, Pre-shielding everyone is your friend, Using PoM is your friend.

    My advice to you as a Disc priest is avoid using penance when it is not necessary (Save it as your oh sh*t button)

    Shield, Flash Heal, PoM, Renew...those are you friends. Most times a shield and Renew will fully heal a dps who took damage freeing up your attention and time to help others...
    People that think they know it all are annoying to those of us that do

  6. #26

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    I was holy forever, loved it and even tho I tried disc out, I always thought disc was "harder" to keep ppl alive thru heavy dmg such as the PoS pulls, but that was only because I wasn't use to the spec. After a while I decided to give disc another shot and I'm glad I did. I rarely ever pop into Holy spec anymore. Even when I'm assigned to raid heal I still stay in disc. It IS more difficult to manage AoE healing as disc, but it's certainly possible. While it is perferrable to raid heal as holy (CoH is win), it's all a matter of play style, what YOU prefer to heal as. I personaly prefer Disc over Holy. Only thing about Disc that has steady kept me annoyed is the lack of knowledge about the spec in the game. Example: RL - Priest your HPS is too low, we are going to need to replace you. Me - I'm disc, everyone's HPS BETTER be higher then mine or they fail. RL - ....? Me - *sigh* (spam Recount Guessed Absorbed Meter) RL - Oh....
    It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again..

  7. #27

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinraa
    Only thing about Disc that has steady kept me annoyed is the lack of knowledge about the spec in the game. Example: RL - Priest your HPS is too low, we are going to need to replace you. Me - I'm disc, everyone's HPS BETTER be higher then mine or they fail. RL - ....? Me - *sigh* (spam Recount Guessed Absorbed Meter) RL - Oh....
    ROFL....I can't believe there are still retard raid leaders out there that don't know this simple fact. I mean the game has only been out 5+ years.
    People that think they know it all are annoying to those of us that do

  8. #28

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    ...and Disc has only been remotely viable in PVE for 2 of those and absorb tracking mods have only been available for just over 1 year. :

    Not to mention that most good raid leaders know not to trust absorb tracking mods and are aware of their drawbacks and inaccuracies. Sorry, but it isn't a 'simple fact'. Being commonly accepted doesn't make something true.

    This is again why Blizzard needs to allow the combat log to properly register absorbs. That way mods and parsing sites can actually accurately register how Disc heals. If it was currently done most Disc Priests would be embarrassed by how poorly they're really doing on many ICC fights. Similar to how if damage was increased Holy would be a bit embarrassed by not being able to keep up with heals. Hopefully Cataclysm fixed both problems by not spoon-feeding us raids and also allowing absorb tracking. Would fix two big balance issues that are currently concealed by the system.

  9. #29

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    The meters may not be accurate (that's why its called GUESSED absorbed), but it's better then showing nothing at all.

    As for "Most good raid leaders know not to trust...", how many GOOD PuG RL's have YOU come across?
    It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again..

  10. #30

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Okies. The "Guessed Absorbed" can't be trusted....ever...so the best Disc priest is doing 3-4k worth of HPS after bubbles are into account according to your numbers....

    Aka:
    ZOMG I'M WAY BETR THAN A DISC PRIEST..ROFL..ROFL..NO NOBODIES BETTER ZAN ME..NOM NOM NOM...DON'T EVEN BRING DISC PRIEST...I IZ DROODS..I IZ HOLY PRIEST AND UBER GOOD...

    10k worth of damage can be absorbed by the bubble. Lets just say we get credit for 40% overheal on that one and so our bubbles are each covering 6k. If you do 3k HPS as Disc, Guessed absorb will put you around 6.5k. This is a 3.5k difference. 60% of that is 2100. Putting them at right around 5.1k. Now lets count in our 3% damage reduction for the raid after bubble. Now lets count in Aegis (dunno if bubble meters track that). And we're still important because although our "hps" may be lower, we're mitigating it before it hits rather than responding after.

    I mean...come on guys. How about Holy and Disc quit fighting because 90% of us are probably dual spec'd holy and Disc. Lets just say it how it is, both Holy and Disc need buffs or Druids/Shaman need nerfs because WE AS A CLASS, are not feeling any love.

  11. #31

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    90% of us are probably dual spec'd holy and Disc
    Nope, Dual Spec'd Holy and uhh... Holy. :-\ :P
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
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    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  12. #32

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    I ran Holy + Holy for a while as well. I run Holy + Disc again since our other Disc Priest quit after being called out for not having a Holy spec for the other bosses in ICC and forcing us to run with poor healer compositions (he was Disc PVE + Disc PVP).

  13. #33

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerdj26
    Okies. The "Guessed Absorbed" can't be trusted....ever...so the best Disc priest is doing 3-4k worth of HPS after bubbles are into account according to your numbers....
    Huh...thats funny..I don't recall seeing any numbers in either of my posts. Did anyone else see any numbers and I'm just missing it?!

    I also don't recall seeing anywhere that I wrote anything about Disc > Holy. I do, however, recall commenting on the OP and stating that *I* preferred Disc over holy and that it was a matter of personal preferance and playstyle what HE chose to do.

    I am perfectly aware of how Disc priests work. And I am ALSO aware that "Guessed Absorbed" is off kilter and is by no means a way to accurately track what we heal/mitigate. HENCE WHY IT IS GUESSED!!! That plug-in mod is there for one reason and one reason only, to shut the ppl who have no idea wtf is going on in the mechanics of a Disc priest TFU.
    It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again..

  14. #34

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    if you cant heal 5 mans as disc , you wont be able to heal them as holy either. disc is superior to holy. preshield your group and preheal with prayer during those packs , penance /mending the tank on cooldown , problem solved.
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  15. #35

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonish
    if you cant heal 5 mans as disc , you wont be able to heal them as holy either. disc is superior to holy. preshield your group and preheal with prayer during those packs , penance /mending the tank on cooldown , problem solved.
    :

    You realize the OP wasn't having any issue with tank healing in 5 mans, right? He's talking about people dying to AOE and your solution is PoM and Penance on the tank on cooldown and preshield? From the OP: I always got PoM and Shields active, but Garfrost and the 3-4 Packs up to the Cave in Pit are really annoying. What a useless reply... Holy would do better in keeping people alive in those situations as long as the tank is safe. Discipline can do decently by using PoH to help cover it up, but it's more difficult. With his very low gear level Disc is probably the right route to be taking, but at least give proper advice about how to handle those situations as Disc. You know, how you can use Mass Dispel on Garfost. How you need to cure diseases on the packs before the tunnel, using PoH, using Hymn in emergencies. Not 'lol use Penance and PoM on tanks'.

    And Ballerelli, that's a fallacy... You're talking about things looking easier, not being easier. If people are not in danger of dying from incoming damage then there isn't a difference between healing them up, or preventing the damage. Discipline is not unique in being proactive by any stretch. It is the only healer that can complete a healing action before a damaging action takes place in order to prevent health loss, yes, but that is not what proactive means. All healers should be proactive as in the context of healing it refers to being able to predict and anticipate the flow of a fight. Any time your decision making process takes place before an event, you are being proactive. If you're not doing this, then you need more practice as a healer.

    Shielding blindly is not a proactive action. It's simply an action you're actively taking. For it to be proactive you need to anticipate incoming damage. At the same time healing someone after they have taken damage is not reactive unless you make a decision after the event how to handle it. When being proactive you have already anticipated the event and planned on how to deal with it. The order of decision making is what matters, not the order of events. Using your logic you could also claim that shields are completely inferior to heals. This is because they can not be used after an event has already occurred, in the same way that heals can not be used (in most cases) before an event has occurred. Both solutions are wrong because they're based on a faulty premise.

  16. #36

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    :

    You realize the OP wasn't having any issue with tank healing in 5 mans, right? He's talking about people dying to AOE and your solution is PoM and Penance on the tank on cooldown and preshield? From the OP: I always got PoM and Shields active, but Garfrost and the 3-4 Packs up to the Cave in Pit are really annoying. What a useless reply... Holy would do better in keeping people alive in those situations as long as the tank is safe. Discipline can do decently by using PoH to help cover it up, but it's more difficult. With his very low gear level Disc is probably the right route to be taking, but at least give proper advice about how to handle those situations as Disc. You know, how you can use Mass Dispel on Garfost. How you need to cure diseases on the packs before the tunnel, using PoH, using Hymn in emergencies. Not 'lol use Penance and PoM on tanks'.
    By pre healing / shielding / mending / renewing the tank that gives you a LONG time to do nothing but raid or group heal. If you are using the proper glyphs shields also work as a heal and can be used as an "o crap someone is about to die" type heal.

    by pre shielding I meant pre-shield the group. I didnt think i needed to spell out HOW you heal as discipline word for word to make my point. If i wanted to spend more than a minute writing a simple reply to a question then I would do so, but explaining how you heal with a spec is like trying to explain your opening rotation as a dps spec. It is pointless.

    Either spec can work just fine but if you are not capable of doing these packs of trash as one spec, swapping to the other isnt going to help you at all. THAT was my point.

    What a useless reply... Holy would do better in keeping people alive in those situations as long as the tank is safe.
    You know what holy is the worst at ? keeping the tank healed. You know what discipline is the best at , prehealing the tank so you can focus on the rest of the group. pre-shielding the group prevents the damage from the aoe which should be shut down by any competent tank or dps anyway. you still get the magic dots but those are easily dispelled as stated and even if you dont want to dispell are easily healed through with prayer sped up by borrowed time.

    the question was answered by my original post , if you cant do it as disc , you cant do it as holy. This is a player issue not a spec issue. Unless your gear is just horid then that gives you a 3rd option to look into, but that problem is solved in about 1 week of heroics.
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  17. #37

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    I ran Holy + Holy for a while as well. I run Holy + Disc again since our other Disc Priest quit after being called out for not having a Holy spec for the other bosses in ICC and forcing us to run with poor healer compositions (he was Disc PVE + Disc PVP).
    Gratz to your disc priest for quitting. There is 1 fight in all of ICC where holy is even useful over disc(unless you have another disc priest), but even then you said YOU are the holy priest in your guild.
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  18. #38

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calendra12345
    Disc is [...] a better raid healer then holy
    Wut, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerdj26
    Okies. The "Guessed Absorbed" can't be trusted....ever...
    Skada has a great Absorbs meter, much better than "GuessAbsorb" for Recount. Skada doesn't hog a shitload of resources, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  19. #39

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Love Disc, Hate Holy (for pve).

    The only time I feel I struggle as Disc is HoR HC (*#£$%*£ rat hole instance).

  20. #40

    Re: Stay Disc or go Holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korvan
    The only time I feel I struggle as Disc is HoR HC (*#£$%*£ rat hole instance).
    Actually Disc is favored, for that place. Holy has it FAR worse than Disc, for H HoR.

    Also, difficult =/= shitty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

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