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  1. #801

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshiro
    You are still rolling with that "kid" attitude? It really does make you look bad.
    I could gem pure stamina if I'd like, sure. Again, you have no knowledge about me nor my char.

    Why don't you link me your armory, since you speak so mighty?
    This name, Anetheron.

    I don't need to know anything more about you. You are awful. You gem for defense over cap.

  2. #802

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Quesly
    so....what your saying is you want to overgear 10 man too?
    Try harder next time x
    I'll do it in whatever drops for me in our runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrotan
    This is a good change. For everyone who doesn't have a god complex.
    QFT
    Quote Originally Posted by Health View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereign View Post
    Besides, you don't gain any knowledge of a useful spec if you level as BM
    When you're asleep, me and an enchancement shaman are gonna enter your room and beastcleave you to tears.

  3. #803

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Can't say I like the changes but only time will show how the whole thing will turn out,no need to QQ about it that early.

  4. #804

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    As someone who plays this game for small tight knit group of 10 people, this is awesome. Running 25 mans has always been a source of frustration as it seems you get 18 people who know what they are doing and 7 people who have got no clue and constantly wipe you.

    There is nothing to say, however, that certain items (read Legendary) will not be 25 man only. Nor is there anything saying that 25 man wont have unique content rewards (i.e. Invincible for 25HM only ).

    Increasing the difficulty for 10 mans will be nice, they are too easy atm (esp with access to free loot 25 man gear ). I think back to Kara in Heroic gear. Doing moroes, now that was fun and a challenge.

    Shared lockouts, about time.
    Plus its more time working on PVP/Real life. No more 4+ nights a week raiding.

  5. #805

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    wow do people actually read the blue post, or skim and pull out keywords?

    I think IF 10 and 25 mans are tuned the same, then 10mans will be harder than 25 (less room for fail).

    I like the addition of several smaller raids as opposed to 1 really long raid at each tier, because it will give people with kids/work/responsibilities the chance to complete a raid in one night, and not get saved to half a raid.

    Removing the attempts is a good idea. if a guild is dedicated enough to spend 6 hours wiping on a single boss, then they should be allowed to.

  6. #806

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Technically speaking, if 25-mans are supposed to be MORE EFFICIENT at gearing up, the number of drops for 25 will have to be increased significantly.

    If they're doing what it sounds like they're doing, then it will be along the lines of 2-3 drops in 10-mans (or roughly a 1/5 drop rate for the raid), 8-10 drops in 25 (or roughly a 2/5 drop rate).

    If that is the case, then I have no problem with the new system. 25s get the same loot, but they gear up noticeably (perhaps 2x) faster.

  7. #807

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    This name, Anetheron.
    Sigh, keep the armory pissing contest for school and your friends in 8th grade.

  8. #808

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    NERD RAGE INCOMING, WHAT THE F*CK IS BLIZZARD DOING!

  9. #809

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Elween
    Deathbringer Saurfang comes to my mind.
    Mark of the Fallen Champion:
    (25) Yeah sure 5 guys have the mark no big deal our 6 healers can handle it
    (10) Guys we have one mark up kill it fast or the 2 healers will be over run
    How bad is your guild's dps on 25man?

  10. #810

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This how i always said WotLK raid progression should have been when it was first announced, so i'm glad they've finally come to their senses and done so.

    With multiple dungeons, i can see it being less of an issue, but i many guilds have flexable numbers within a week, so it would be nice to also have 10 and 25 player mode share the same id and be activated the same way as heroic mode is, so support changing numbers on different days.

  11. #811

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by zaneosak
    You know what it said on the WoTLK features page? "MAKE YOUR OWN DANCES" Yeah, that didnt happen either, just because Billy Mays tells you that the putty will stick to a semi and trailer and pull it doesnt mean its going to actually happen.
    Yea lets compare a dance studio to the most important thing in World of Warcraft. Clearly they'll apply the same attention to raiding as they do a fucking dance studio.

    I swear WoW attracts the most retarded people in the world (not saying everyone is, but many of them most definitely are and everyone knows it).


    On a more serious note, this is a godsend for PvPers who can't always get into to 25 man raids for a god damn deathbringers will that warriors basically NEED to be competitive at high end arena. Of course thats assuming the game will still require 4 pieces of pve gear to be the best in pvp which should be fixed individually anyways.

    And wth is with the QQ

    25 man raids - u get gear faster. everyone that can will still do that anyways. who the fuck wants to wait longer when you don't have to. QQing fags like yourselves?

    Shared Lockout - There are multiple raids. You won't get sick of them as easily. Since raids are only 6ish bosses now, you can get as far as you should be able to get in 1 day anyways so why worry about getting people on for next time. And maybe if you kill 1 boss in 25 man and go in to 10 man later then that one boss will just be dead and you can keep going? Who knows?


    How can you guys think that your idea of how this is gonna work that you came up with in 15 minutes is better or more correct than experienced game designers who spend 8 hours a day thinking about this shit?

  12. #812

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Why would they keep gating if everything is going to be more challenging and MORE raids to experience? The sheer amount of content they are promising should be sufficient to keeping us busy right?

  13. #813

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Here's my issue with this: Your raiding guild raids 25 mans. You get a boss that has a fight mechanic much like Blood Queen or Deathbringer Saurfang of which you have to be positioned correctly, you have a few attempts at it but don't get very far and you still have a fair number of people messing up.

    Here's the issue: Now the GM/Raid Leader decides, "This will be much easier if we set this to 10 man because we will have a lot more room to work with and it's easier to coordinate." So the raid leader goes and moves 15 people out. Now they do the boss in 10man mode, one or two-shot it because it was a mere coordination fight and was only difficult because the space in the room was a limitation. Now the other 15 people don't get any loot, what-so-ever...

    And the best part of it all, because this imaginary boss we're using will always be easier on 10man than 25, this path of having 15 people sit out will continue to happen until A) Guilds fall apart, or B) Blizzard does something to prevent this while still making this concept work.

  14. #814
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon
    While I understand your point, I highly doubt this is their only reasoning behind the changes. I suspect its more to do with 10-man guilds complaining about 25 man guilds receiving 'better' gear than of which they can obtain through their raids. This is of course ridiculous as the reason the 25 man gear had improved stats was because there were higher DPS requirements etc.

    I can't help but feel this is there way of making the 10 man QQ'ers feel good about themselves.
    If the difference in raid difficulty were to stay as it is today, I would agree with you. If Blizzard achieves their goal of 10 and 25-man raiding being similar difficulty, then I'll fall back on my statement regarding gear inflation.

  15. #815

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Naturae
    Here's my issue with this: Your raiding guild raids 25 mans. You get a boss that has a fight mechanic much like Blood Queen or Deathbringer Saurfang of which you have to be positioned correctly, you have a few attempts at it but don't get very far and you still have a fair number of people messing up.

    Here's the issue: Now the GM/Raid Leader decides, "This will be much easier if we set this to 10 man because we will have a lot more room to work with and it's easier to coordinate." So the raid leader goes and moves 15 people out. Now they do the boss in 10man mode, one or two-shot it because it was a mere coordination fight and was only difficult because the space in the room was a limitation. Now the other 15 people don't get any loot, what-so-ever...

    And the best part of it all, because this imaginary boss we're using will always be easier on 10man than 25, this path of having 15 people sit out will continue to happen until A) Guilds fall apart, or B) Blizzard does something to prevent this while still making this concept work.
    Aye this exactly, having 15 extra people will always lead to more mistakes, and problems with positioning. Really I have no idea how they will tune 10 and 25 man to be exactly the same, because at the moment, they are definitely not.

  16. #816
    Mechagnome kenneth044's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    This name, Anetheron.

    I don't need to know anything more about you. You are awful. You gem for defense over cap.
    Jeez, it's like talking to a wall.
    The goblin warrior, Gallywix!
    "And the Heavens shall tremble!"

    My name is Kenneth044, and I'm an altoholic!

  17. #817

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I love the idea of sharing the lockout of 10 and 25man raid. It's a while i'm bored doing ICC twice a week for emblems or progress. I hope they make new raids last more than 1-2 days...
    I don't like the idea of the shared loot. In my opinion more emblems and drops aren't enough to keep a 25 man running. It's harder to organize a guild with more than 30 players minimum! It's easier to have a little core of 13-14 players and run 10 man!
    And please.... not the gating system again! I don't want to be stuck in a wing with nothing more to do....

    I know this post is a lot of QQ and no discussion at all but i'm not in the mood to elaborate....

  18. #818

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Sadly, this is one of the few things that could make me quit the game.

  19. #819

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by zaneosak
    You know what it said on the WoTLK features page? "MAKE YOUR OWN DANCES" Yeah, that didnt happen either, just because Billy Mays tells you that the putty will stick to a semi and trailer and pull it doesnt mean its going to actually happen.
    Because making your own dances and the amount of raiding content are of course on the same scale.

  20. #820

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Naturae
    Here's my issue with this: Your raiding guild raids 25 mans. You get a boss that has a fight mechanic much like Blood Queen or Deathbringer Saurfang of which you have to be positioned correctly, you have a few attempts at it but don't get very far and you still have a fair number of people messing up.

    Here's the issue: Now the GM/Raid Leader decides, "This will be much easier if we set this to 10 man because we will have a lot more room to work with and it's easier to coordinate." So the raid leader goes and moves 15 people out. Now they do the boss in 10man mode, one or two-shot it because it was a mere coordination fight and was only difficult because the space in the room was a limitation. Now the other 15 people don't get any loot, what-so-ever...

    And the best part of it all, because this imaginary boss we're using will always be easier on 10man than 25, this path of having 15 people sit out will continue to happen until A) Guilds fall apart, or B) Blizzard does something to prevent this while still making this concept work.
    Pretty sure you should be looking for a new guild or better friends if your RL ninjas a raidID in such a fashion from 15 other guildies.

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