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  1. #821

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshiro
    Jeez, it's like talking to a wall.
    A wall that can play a simple video game better then you.

  2. #822

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Quesly
    Its more that better players will use better gear to its full capacity I've seen too many downs bm hunters with 2 pc sanct from voa that are gemming haste
    They are still bad. and will eb even if they had full heroic 25m gear.

    The only thing this does is level the playing field for people that cant raid contantly.
    "Those who dance appear insane to those who can't hear the music." ~~ George Carlin


  3. #823

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I am posting this on page 43. By the time I am done typing I'm sure I will be on page 50 something, but I'm going to take my time and make a long intelligent post that is going to be ignored over the waves of 1-liner QQs.


    I am upset by this shared lockout, as are most people. However most other people are upset over this for the wrong reasons. In order to understand this overall change you have to understand WHY the lockouts are going to be linked. They're going to be linked because they are bringing the gear in-line with normal 25-man gear. Obviously, making a change like this is a big one and you have to adjust things accordingly. If they left everything the same with two seperate lockouts for both 10 and 25, then your 25 man raid can essentially get double the same quality gear in a week. Finish your 25 man and then go farm the 10 man for the exact same drops. This is a problem that they would have to address. Therefore AS A RESULT of the merging gear, the lockouts were linked. To be truly upset at the lockouts means that we must be upset at the merging of the gear. To get our lockouts separated again the gear would have to be the same quality division that it is now, which is something that I support.

    Why do they want to bring the 25 gear into the 10 man instances? Well, we all have come up with our reasons. Suffice it to say the majority of us believe it is "The Casual" that's doing it. I don't think that it's the casual players that are doing it, I'm more of the line of thought that it's the mentality of a majority of the player base that says "I pay the subscription fees, therefore I am entitled to 100% of the game's items, content, bosses, gear etc etc" It is this mentality of "want" vs "work" that is degrading the game that millions of us love, (and as a side note that same thought in the real world is degrading our non-virtual lives as well)

    I'm going to make this a little longer in a totally separate post I think, because I have a lot of ground to cover, but you get the idea...

  4. #824
    The Patient Thaendra's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I really hate this change. Others like it. That's nice. I hate it. Of course my opinion won't change anything. Sigh... What about those of us who LIKE having two chances to raid? what about those of us, who, like to have a nice relaxing 10 man, and also a progression minded 25 man, or vice versa? I mean in essence this is what blizzard is doing:
    Taking away 25 mans from 10 man focused guilds.
    Taking away 10 mans from 25 man focused guilds.

    At least you had the OPTION of doing both. Then, you won't. How is that "better"? The "improvements" Blizzard listed to 10's and 25's are no where near worth completely obliterating one tier of raid content and the option for guilds to do both 10 and 25 man versions of a raid.

    All I can hope is that because nothing is set in stone, this either goes away or the benefits blizzard bestows upon each raid tier is unique/better than what they've listed... this is what I will hope for.

  5. #825

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by degobyan
    Yea lets compare a dance studio to the most important thing in World of Warcraft. Clearly they'll apply the same attention to raiding as they do a fucking dance studio.

    I swear WoW attracts the most retarded people in the world (not saying everyone is, but many of them most definitely are and everyone knows it).


    On a more serious note, this is a godsend for PvPers who can't always get into to 25 man raids for a god damn deathbringers will that warriors basically NEED to be competitive at high end arena. Of course thats assuming the game will still require 4 pieces of pve gear to be the best in pvp which should be fixed individually anyways.

    And wth is with the QQ

    25 man raids - u get gear faster. everyone that can will still do that anyways. who the fuck wants to wait longer when you don't have to. QQing fags like yourselves?

    Shared Lockout - There are multiple raids. You won't get sick of them as easily. Since raids are only 6ish bosses now, you can get as far as you should be able to get in 1 day anyways so why worry about getting people on for next time. And maybe if you kill 1 boss in 25 man and go in to 10 man later then that one boss will just be dead and you can keep going? Who knows?


    How can you guys think that your idea of how this is gonna work that you came up with in 15 minutes is better or more correct than experienced game designers who spend 8 hours a day thinking about this shit?
    LOL It was just one example, I didnt feel like going back and looking at what they promised for each expansion. Why do you blind fan boys believe everything blizzard says. They dont KNOW what they are going to finish and neither do you. Why do you think they release Expansions with bugged to hell raids (TBC anybody?)

  6. #826

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Anyone else view this as poorly-disguised laziness on Blizzard's part?

    Dropping the same items = spending less money.

  7. #827

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I think they should just bring back the TBC raid method, but with more emphasis on 10 mans, and then the really epic raids like ICC or BT, could be 25 man.

  8. #828
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilraaz
    If the difference in raid difficulty were to stay as it is today, I would agree with you. If Blizzard achieves their goal of 10 and 25-man raiding being similar difficulty, then I'll fall back on my statement regarding gear inflation.
    Currently 10m appears less difficult because people use 25man gear to clear 10m content. With the difficulty increased you won't be able to run 25man content and then roll through 10mans.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Essentia@Cho'gall of Inebriated Raiding.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ssentia/simple

  9. #829

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Nejm
    This opinion is from a PoV of a high-end hardcore raider:

    Great changes for the normal and the hardcore player. I personally believe this system will solve some of the issues that high end guilds have with managing multiple runs and having their players burn out. Also from my experience I've seen many guilds disbanding/merging or canceling raids during holidays and vacation periods due to inability to fill up 25 raids, while with this change you can easily manage 10 man run with more or less same quality and continue raiding during the "dry" periods.

    I've been raiding for 5 years now, did all 40, 25 and 10 player raids and this is the best system Blizzard invented so far imo. In WotLK it felt too tiresome and repetitive to run the exact same instance on both 10 and 25 man, then run it again on alts twice per raid size. This will give a chance for the normal player to finish the instances within ~2 raids per week on normal mode, or in case of a hardcore player to run the instance on heroic mode and get better rewards and then run it again on his/her alts without wasting shitloads of raid time per week to complete all ID's.

    Haters will hate, lovers will love and welcome the changes but before we see them in practice we can't really judge how this will play out. So stop the crying and accept the fact that the game is evolving. Sometimes towards better, sometimes towards worse but in the long run the game has become miles better since the first time I logged on the servers 5+ years ago!
    this<3

  10. #830

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun
    Currently 10m appears less difficult because people use 25man gear to clear 10m content. With the difficulty increased you won't be able to run 25man content and then roll through 10mans.

    Thats not even true. 95% of the guilds that cleared 10 man first did it in TOC gear.

  11. #831
    Brewmaster Nielah's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I'am glad I already quit the game and not having to adjust to these changes.
    40man to 25man was heartbreaking enough.

  12. #832
    Mechagnome kenneth044's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    A wall that can play a simple video game better then you.
    Perhaps you can, perhaps you can't? I really don't invest that much time into the game. But perhaps I enjoy it more than you? I do think so.
    The goblin warrior, Gallywix!
    "And the Heavens shall tremble!"

    My name is Kenneth044, and I'm an altoholic!

  13. #833

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This is pure slap to the face to the big guilds, however a big improvement aswell.

    1. That 10 and 25m version share same lockout is really nice, will remove big guilds gearing up in 10m in order to beat 25m and the other way around. However, at the same time it will reduce the amount of raids you can do a week, I hope they will make more content then.

    2. Both versions dropping same items is pure bullshit to be honest, 25m should have bigger rewards then that.

    3. Good that raids will be shorter, so pugs can clean more then half during same evening.

    In short... another big step towards causality.. Why then even bother to have a guild? Already in Wotlk, we see great number of PUGers, and that will only increase now..

  14. #834

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by xSaix
    Anyone else view this as poorly-disguised laziness on Blizzard's part?

    Dropping the same items = spending less money.
    They've already displayed their laziness with the HEROIC tagged items, same item with increased stats. Takes no thought on the dev team at all, just a buncha bullshit. Although we've all learned to live with it.

  15. #835

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I play this game to raid. i do not like these changes to raids. i enjoy the different items that the 25 mans have compared to the 10mans... but i can live with these changes because i can see the reasons behind this except that the 10 and 25mans share the same lock out that is soo stupid. uhh blizzard why do you have to be such a pain.
    Proud Member of the United States Navy. Aviation Machinist Mate!

  16. #836

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshiro
    Perhaps you can, perhaps you can't? I really don't invest that much time into the game. But perhaps I enjoy it more than you? I do think so.
    I wouldnt play it if I didn't like it. You don't invest much time into a game, but you will fight tooth and nail to get free 25 man epics. Okay.

  17. #837

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Holy Fuckin Shit
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Floross/simple

    "...and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

  18. #838

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    we'll just split and run 3 groups of 10's now. thanks for making the game even easier blizz, all the while making it easier on yourself having to design 1/2 the items. top notch work

  19. #839
    Mechagnome kenneth044's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    I wouldnt play it if I didn't like it. You don't invest much time into a game, but you will fight tooth and nail to get free 25 man epics. Okay.
    Since when did I become a loot whore?
    The goblin warrior, Gallywix!
    "And the Heavens shall tremble!"

    My name is Kenneth044, and I'm an altoholic!

  20. #840

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Path of Titans/Guild Leveling >>>>> Inflation of Item Level

    With this change, gear becomes what should be since day 1, a tool for the goal. Not the goal itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshiro
    Since when did I become a loot whore?
    That's the problem of the QQers, they can only see the game through loot progression. :-X

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