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  1. #841

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshiro
    Since when did I become a loot whore?
    Do you support these changes?

  2. #842

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I think I just came...!

    Finally, I mean FINALLY I can actually raid with the 10 people I really enjoy playing and hanging around with, and who are exceptionally good at what they do.

    Instead of raiding with these 10 awesome people and 15 retards whos learning curve is 5 times that of an average human being.

    I guess our plans for a 10man-core-raiding-guild in Cata are gettin brighter and brighter!

  3. #843

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Larinal
    I hate you all people who say this is a good change, it's all your fault, I fucking hate you.
    Assuming you're serious:

    You need help. I'm not even joking. Talk to a doctor.
    ________

    To the rest of the people who hate the change:

    Not a single one of you has posted anything resembling a good reason why this change is bad, and there are a mountain of reasons for why it makes sense.

    Your tears sustain me. Keep it up. ;D

  4. #844

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleom
    Why do they want to bring the 25 gear into the 10 man instances? Well, we all have come up with our reasons. Suffice it to say the majority of us believe it is "The Casual" that's doing it. I don't think that it's the casual players that are doing it, I'm more of the line of thought that it's the mentality of a majority of the player base that says "I pay the subscription fees, therefore I am entitled to 100% of the game's items, content, bosses, gear etc etc" It is this mentality of "want" vs "work" that is degrading the game that millions of us love, (and as a side note that same thought in the real world is degrading our non-virtual lives as well)
    Thank you for taking the time to explain this to the math-deficient QQers.

    However, I do not believe the gear merging has anything to do with subscription fees. It has to do with gear scaling which caused so many issues on this last expansion mainly due to the new 2-raid lockout periods per instance.

  5. #845
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    Thats not even true. 95% of the guilds that cleared 10 man first did it in TOC gear.
    10 man ToC gear? If not, then it's from an entirely different progression path.

  6. #846
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I completely support these changes. It means I don't have to farm 10 mans in my off time.

  7. #847

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I love the irony that people complain "10s can't be hardz!!!!11" and in the same breath would pine for the days of "truly hard heroic 5-mans".
    I'm in the "I don't have an obnoxiously large signature" club.

  8. #848

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    They really are positioning WoW as a "pick up, put down" type MMO. Anything that required some level of continued involvement is being gradually eliminated.

    As someone earlier in this thread stated... a raider who ran a 10man and a 25man side by side before now will have less to do after their 10man is done for the week, but they'll still be paying the same monthly fee.

  9. #849

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenfinn
    I think I just came...!

    Finally, I mean FINALLY I can actually raid with the 10 people I really enjoy playing and hanging around with, and who are exceptionally good at what they do.

    Instead of raiding with these 10 awesome people and 15 retards whos learning curve is 5 times that of an average human being.

    I guess our plans for a 10man-core-raiding-guild in Cata are gettin brighter and brighter!
    Sorry if I'm missing something here.. But what is stopping you from doing that now?

  10. #850

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilraaz
    10 man ToC gear? If not, then it's from an entirely different progression path.
    Our alts cleared ICC in TOC10 and TOGC10 gear :\.

  11. #851

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    Do you support these changes?
    Uh... this change is deflating the gear and you are calling "loot whores" to those that are defending it? ???

    It's not the 10 man gear that will become better, it's the 25 man gear that will become worse.

  12. #852

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I dont know what to think about this... Blizzard had to do something to balance the 10 and 25 man. 25 mans should not be worth an entire higher tier gear at same difficulty level - and then those guys could go 10 man and take the heroic gear there while those only doing 10 man were strugling big time.

    I think the emphasis should now turn to making heroic versions the really hard ones - but with a twist. So much twist that it actually feels almost like a diffrent fight.

    Basicly .. what is happening tho is that Blizzard is moving the game closer to focus on 5 mans and 10 mans. I think thats pretty good idea considering that the game is getting dated and less people means less stress on both server and client side.

    I might actually come back and focus on 10 mans tbh =) I didn't like the form that it had in WOTLK. It just made people burn out twice as fast opening up so many instances at once.

    I really think Blizzard should focus on creating top quality 5 man dungeons in Cata. And make those progression based so that with each new patch you will get at least 1 new 5 man that has gear progression and limits.

  13. #853

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Doombringer
    They really are positioning WoW as a "pick up, put down" type MMO. Anything that required some level of continued involvement is being gradually eliminated.

    As someone earlier in this thread stated... a raider who ran a 10man and a 25man side by side before now will have less to do after their 10man is done for the week, but they'll still be paying the same monthly fee.
    I completely agree with this statement, and that illustrates precisely why I hate this change.
    I remember when, I remember I remember when I lost my mind,
    There was something so perfect about that place...

  14. #854

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    To all the 10 man raiders saying about how you can now 'stay competitive' with the same loot as 25 man raids...

    Why? Your loot was competitive for the challenges you faced in 10 man. Obviously this is about 10 man raiders wanting higher quality epics. If you don't run 25 mans, it simply doesn't matter whether your loot is ilvl 251, 264, or 277. Your gear is tailored to your experience.

    Stop hiding behind silly excuses and own up to it. You want the same loot as the 25 man raids but can't find enough raiders. It's good to see that Blizzard saw your flood of tears and are jumping to the chance to please you, but it doesn't change anything.

    To those who said this is the return of 10 man strict raiding? Not really. It's the death of the 'strict' part. Congratulations on just being a raider now.

  15. #855
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    Our alts cleared ICC in TOC10 and TOGC10 gear :\.
    You're one of the few. The vast majority take ToC25 and ToGC25 gear, clear ICC10, and bitch that it was easy.

  16. #856

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Nejm
    This opinion is from a PoV of a high-end hardcore raider:

    Great changes for the normal and the hardcore player. I personally believe this system will solve some of the issues that high end guilds have with managing multiple runs and having their players burn out. Also from my experience I've seen many guilds disbanding/merging or canceling raids during holidays and vacation periods due to inability to fill up 25 raids, while with this change you can easily manage 10 man run with more or less same quality and continue raiding during the "dry" periods.

    I've been raiding for 5 years now, did all 40, 25 and 10 player raids and this is the best system Blizzard invented so far imo. In WotLK it felt too tiresome and repetitive to run the exact same instance on both 10 and 25 man, then run it again on alts twice per raid size. This will give a chance for the normal player to finish the instances within ~2 raids per week on normal mode, or in case of a hardcore player to run the instance on heroic mode and get better rewards and then run it again on his/her alts without wasting shitloads of raid time per week to complete all ID's.

    Haters will hate, lovers will love and welcome the changes but before we see them in practice we can't really judge how this will play out. So stop the crying and accept the fact that the game is evolving. Sometimes towards better, sometimes towards worse but in the long run the game has become miles better since the first time I logged on the servers 5+ years ago!
    Pretty much spot on. Burnout is one of the biggest issues hardcores and those close to them are facing atm, this effectively eliminates it.
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  17. #857

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    Thats not even true. 95% of the guilds that cleared 10 man first did it in TOC gear.
    Yes, 10man HC / 25man / 25man HC gear. :

  18. #858

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I personally prefer this method, and wish it would have been implemented earlier. It helps out the smaller guilds, but the larger ones who can do 25-mans wont get the shaft. I am guessing people didn't read the entire blue post, and just went with Boub's TL;DR part (which is fucking pathetic of you people). 25-mans wont become obsolete in the next expansion. You get rewarded for doing it 25-man. From what I read, say 10-man bosses drop 1 badge/emblem/whatever the next raid currency will be, the 25-man bosses will drop 2 (maybe 3) badges. As well as 25-man bosses dropping extra loot. And more money.

    WotLK screwed the smaller guilds pretty hard. Especially when it came to profession patterns (luckily, ICC changed this) and upgrading tier gear. Also, with this new raid design happening, it won't screw the people with the lower-end computers (such as me). Did Marrowgar on 25-man last night for the weekly raid. I was tanking at 1-3 fps. Made sidestepping the flames interesting.

    I for one am happy with these changes.

  19. #859
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwithopp
    Do you support these changes?
    As I mentioned in a post before your flaming began, I do support these changes, for the sole reason that I can focus on 10 man raids. I never liked 25 mans, as either you have to go hardcore, and invest a lot of time into the game, which I don't have as a student, or you will be dragged down by others.

    I don't give a rat' ass about loot, when it comes to progressing. An upgrade is always nice, but calling me a loot whore?
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  20. #860

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Khraine
    Change happens deal with it. I think its a bit meh for combining the loot, but i'm all for it (moar badges)

    we can had beta plx?
    How are there more badges when both 10 and 25 man share the same lockout?


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