I think it's great they are removing the need for 10 man raids to progress in PvE.
I think it's great they are removing the need for 10 man raids to progress in PvE.
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The ONLY way this could be a good thing is if they bumped 10-man difficulty up to 25-man difficulty instead of dumbing 25-man down to 10-man. This I wouldn't mind. However, if this goes down vise-versa, this is going to absolutely ruin the game for Hundreds of thousands of players. Ends of story.
We all know how often people QQ about Blizzard making things better for casuals and less difficult for hard core guild, the guilds that actually make this game what it is, but it is true. Every patch almost it seems like they are making the game more and more casual friendly and making the serious players less and less important.
It is your free time spend it however you want. If you want to only do one 10m or one 25m then level alts go ahead. What you are saying is since you don't know how to manage your own time you want blizzard to force you, and everyone else, to only do one 10m or 25m, instead of you doing your thing, while others spend their time doing what they want.Originally Posted by Klokie
I duno how come you see 10man as a joke. The current loot is decent for the amount of time you spend setting the raids together and leading it.Originally Posted by Naydie
There is very little evidence of how "great" these items will be, if the heirlooms are useful for anything but levelling, how expensive they will be, how many a guild can own.. etc etc. All I've seen from Blizzard on the subject was guild-wide crafting recipes, and heirlooms.. not legendary items, and then the guild talents which seem mostly along the lines of "that was easy" buttons for the more tedious aspects of raids. Unless the guild levelling is going to give tangible rewards to everyone without absurd cost, it's not going to really mitigate the problems I'm talking about very much. You can hold it up guild levelling as a talisman all you want, but there's very little data from Blizzard to support these claims (unless I've missed a blue post somewhere).Originally Posted by Tauror
20 gunship kills on 10 manOriginally Posted by bigsampson
That isn't raiding every night, that is raiding less than 2 hours a week..
Dear idiots that claim it will be slower to gear in 25 mans.
"so while the loot quality will not change, 25-player versions will drop a higher quantity of loot per player"
meaning that if 10 mans drop 2 pieces (1 piece for every 5 players) then 25 mans will drop at least 6 items.
This change is just fantastic! I mean who isn't bored of clearing the same instance twice every week... It gets dull really fast. Im also loving the idea of multiple shorter raid instances (like SSC/TK) for the variety it brings.
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Good.* 10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.
Hmmm...* 10-Man and 25-Man raids difficulty will be as close as possible to each other.
BAD!* 10-Man and 25-Man raids will drop the exact same loot, but 25-man will drop a higher quantity of items.
Will do.* Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel
Hmmm...* For the first few raid tiers, our plan is to provide multiple smaller raids. Instead of one raid with eleven bosses, you might have a five-boss raid as well as a six-boss raid.
As it was allready mentioned in this thread, such changes make a risk of completely killing off the idea of 25-man raiding. Giving same loot in both 25 and 10 is quite a big step towards it. The fact, that the difficulty is promised to be same, is not any close to being an excuse. This will rather encourage people to keep on with 10-mans instead of 25!
Not only it is easier to gather 10 people instead of 25. There is something even worse. If the "overall difficulty" will be equal for 25 and 10, then, actually, in 10-man a player's skill and attention will play higher role, than they do in 25. The 25s are fun because they are more competitive. So if 10-mans actually provide more competition per player, then hardcore players will rather focus on them.
And the epic-horny people will have no serious reason to set up for 25 man raids, since they can get all the same loot in 10. The only reason for them to go 25 would probably be if the 25s "per-player" difficuly becomes indeed much easier than that of 10-mans.
Can everyone please STOP saying 10 man guilds can only contain casual people?
I am in a 10 man guild raiding 1-2 nights a week, killed LK and have 9/12 10 man HC on farm.
My guild loves this change, as this means we no longer have to pug shitty 25 man raids to get equal gear as people facerolling trough normal 25 man ICC.
Why are you PuG'ing ICC25? So you can faceroll through your 10HC? kkOriginally Posted by Arachnan
Here's my issue with this: Your raiding guild raids 25 mans. You get a boss that has a fight mechanic much like Blood Queen or Deathbringer Saurfang of which you have to be positioned correctly, you have a few attempts at it but don't get very far and you still have a fair number of people messing up.
Here's the issue: Now the GM/Raid Leader decides, "This will be much easier if we set this to 10 man because we will have a lot more room to work with and it's easier to coordinate." So the raid leader goes and moves 15 people out. Now they do the boss in 10man mode, one or two-shot it because it was a mere coordination fight and was only difficult because the space in the room was a limitation. Now the other 15 people don't get any loot, what-so-ever...
And the best part of it all, because this imaginary boss we're using will always be easier on 10man than 25, this path of having 15 people sit out will continue to happen until A) Guilds fall apart, or B) Blizzard does something to prevent this while still making this concept work.
It saddens me that no matter what they say unless it's a major buff to your class the majority of you bitch and whine like the world is about to fucking end.
Examples (if you've browsed this site for a minute and a half you've probably read it before):
-Oh no not the bads, god forbid if there are people under my skill level who might join the same pug as I'm in and destroy my entire evening because I can't be arsed to either tell them how to do things properly or spend more than a fraction of a second finding a group only to whine at them for being n00bs once I get saved to the instance.
-I hate gearscore but yours is too low so gtfo.
-Boo hoo content is too hard/easy and Blizz is an evil corporation that only wants money as opposed to any other company out there THIS IS NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR IN VANILLA (which is the only thing that matters ever).
If you don't like a product stop using it. How can it be harder than that?
Still no word on whether they're planning on implimenting some sort of blue quality dungeon set. That would be wonderful.
Oh, something else I've thought of that will hopefully be implemented (and it somewhat already is going to be), is a small amount of attunement to raids. Not so much a bigass quest chain to enter a raid, but just something small. "Kill the last boss of raid A", and you're attuned to raid B. They already said that you need to have completed an instance on normal mode to enter it's heroic counterpart, which is good. Now, the reason I want to see this sort of small attunement return is simply because - who raids Naxxramas and Ulduar anymore? Aside for the weekly, I'd like to see the older instances still have people running them later into the expansion with alts so they can enter the latest raids.
Meh, just my two cents.
Sure, it's all speculation by now, but it's a great way to reward those that want to do 25 man. Path of Titans the same.Originally Posted by sephrael
Agreed; this is probably what's going to happen. They'll up the difficulty in 10man raids instead of bringing down the 25man difficulty. Haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if anyone mentioned this but also there are going to be more than one choice on what raid to do, instead of the linear progression that WotlK brought us Cataclysm will have multiple raids with the same item level of loot out at one time. This being said it'll allow guilds to focus their 25man progression team on one particular raid and then their 10man team can focus on what they didn't raid that week. Depending on how it gets worked this, in my humble opinion, won't kill 'hardcore' guilds but instead just add more variety. We're all use to the linear progression of WotlK now that having a variety of raids to choose from without item level swaying the decision is overlooked which is where most of the QQ comes from.Originally Posted by Tirator
plz plz people before you qq read the #$%ing post carefully!!