1. #1081
    Stood in the Fire Switchshot's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Hahah good riddance, finally the 25 man raider mindset of assholes and pricks looking down on 10 raiders will be gone!

  2. #1082

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Badpriest
    "We’re also not sure about realm first achievements or titles. We don’t want to encourage, say, 25-player focused guilds to run a 10-player raid instead because they think that will get them the ream first title faster. One potential solution is you can earn a realm first title in 10 or 25, but not both. These types of achievements also serve as great content for guild achievements."

    Because it makes sense that the most qualified guild for the realm first shouldn't be able to get both, right?
    guilds that do run for realm first have enought people to have a 10 man and 25man runing at same time, they also have alts that are bether equiped them your on main.

    Remember ICC harmodes? they run the raid with they alts to know the tatics so they save trys for the mains.
    Bad - This is a bad player, he refuses to learn how to play correctly.
    Casual - This is a player that will let everything else take priority over wow.
    Hardcore - This is a player that is fine with putting things on hold while he's on wow.
    Bad/Good - Measure of Skill.
    Casual/Hardcore - Measure of Time

  3. #1083

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Over one thousand QQ replies, eight more to go.

  4. #1084
    Warchief SoulPoetry's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviltry
    Over one thousand QQ replies, eight more to go.
    i have faith that, for once, some real news will get more comments than a vanity item.

  5. #1085
    The Lightbringer Dewote's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Nobody is forcing to change to 10 mans.
    You can still raid 25 mans.
    'Nuff said
    FC 2793-2016-8218 - Name: Suoma

  6. #1086

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Some of you guys are QQ'ing for the wrong reason. Just because 10m + 25m share the same lockout doesn't mean we will only raid 1-2 days a week. Theres going to be more raids now, which will still take time to down all of them. With more raids, that equals to more bosses, and more strats, more variety and fun.

  7. #1087

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Personally, I think this kills 10 mans.

    Same loot dropping in both raids is a good and should have happened earlier, but the increase quantity of items, gold, and badges/emblems replacement means that makes 10 mans obselete, I think its going to be 10mans dropping 2 items, 2 badges and 25 drops dropping 5 items, 5 badges. Id do 25s anyday over 10s for that.

  8. #1088

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This reminds me of when 40 man's got turned down to 25.


    Pfoooehhhhhhhhh, the amount of comments in that topic.

  9. #1089

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Nobody is forcing to change to 10 mans.
    You can still raid 25 mans.
    'Nuff said
    There is a little flaw in this argument.
    Yes, I would still try to stick to 25s if I could. But really A LOT of other people will rather do 10s, so I will just fail to find companions for my 25.

  10. #1090

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I think Blizz is doing this for a few different reasons. Again, these are just my opinions.

    - The ever growing numbers of players that love raiding with their alts.

    - Artificially slows down the progression.

    - Blizz is trying all they can to level the playing field. They know many players don't care for 25man raids, but want equal loot for equal effort.

    - This makes designing content much easier for them.

    I honestly think Blizz is leaning towards making 10 man raiding their priority in the future.

  11. #1091

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadence
    Personally, I think this kills 10 mans.

    Same loot dropping in both raids is a good and should have happened earlier, but the increase quantity of items, gold, and badges/emblems replacement means that makes 10 mans obselete, I think its going to be 10mans dropping 2 items, 2 badges and 25 drops dropping 5 items, 5 badges. Id do 25s anyday over 10s for that.
    10/10 would feed again

  12. #1092

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by sneaky7
    OOM healers or unskilled healers will be a more likely cause of a wipe in Cata than they are nowdays. And since the burst on tanks is removed, the "fast reaction to pop a Last Stand within 1 second after suddenly getting under 10%" will no longer work. The damage that tanks take will be scaled with the amount of healing they are supposed to recieve in 10 or 25. Thus, they will still need to pop their cooldowns for better damage reduction. If once in a period of time the boss begins to deal 3 times more damage than he normally does, that will be the time to pop a cooldown, no matter if it is 10 or 25.
    But honestly, I still admit that in 25 man tanking will probably be more interesting and difficult. I am just saying that your are making this more dramatic than it actually is.
    When you play for interesting and fun tanking....how much more dramatic can it be.

    "I still admit that in 25 man tanking will probably be more interesting and difficult"

    ofc it will be. Why would anyone want to continue with a game that is "less interesting", "less difficult". Generally difficulty should progress, not regress.

    Basically they claim they can balance difficulty. Without radiance, e.g. doubling healing or regen or halving healths in 10mans, they simply can't achieve that.

    e.g. when a DPS'er stands in a fire in a 25 man, he may have 1-2 seconds to get out of it or he is dead. In 10 man that is never the case. The fire spots just do less damage, otherwise your 2-3 healers go OOM. So if you have 4 secs to get out of the fire instead of 2 secs, where are the reaction tests....there just arn't any. 10 mans because of the fact that you just can't throw as much burst damage around because of limited healers, are and always will be easy mode relative to their 25 man versions.

    Most people here are concerned about loot, I couldn't give a rats ass about loot. But the quality of the game comes from the challenge it provides and that you have to overcome. This change will always leave either the 10man or the 25man as the "easier" path to loot. and everyone will quickly go for which ever one is deemed easiest, 99% probably 10 man.

    Like Arenas, suddenly class composition becomes 100% key, not even class composition.....class + spec. Min/Max.

    You will NEVER get "bring the player, not the class" with 10 man heroics being the choice raid for hard mode loot.

    Basically this is a dreadful change for the game, and its future amongst those most dedicated to it.

  13. #1093

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This is awesome, I have less of a chance to raid with stupid people

    Although, I wouldn't discount Blizzard on this one. If they wanted to kill 25 mans they just would have. I'm going to be the 25 mans are tweaked enough to still be "more" attractive.

    I'm just tired of always having at least 1 person in our raids just not get the game at all. We have pallies who insist on staying Flash of Light spec ><, when we have no Holy Light speced pally.

  14. #1094

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    IT'S ALL KREWEL'S FAULT!! :-X
    http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww163/Jaqerainey/raineynezmoth1.jpg

  15. #1095

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Epicadin
    More people will be in the raid, so the loot, like now, will be proportional to the amount of people in the raid (2 pieces in 10 = 5 pieces in 25) and I like the way you added "possibly". We only know what they have said, and people are reacting to such...

    Blizzard better fix this fast before 25s become obsolete!!
    10 man:
    -10 people, maybe 6 bosses in one raid.
    -each boss drops 2 items out of a possible 8+?.
    -12 bits of loot with a 25% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

    25 man:
    -25 people, maybe 6 bosses.
    -each boss drops 5 items out of a possible 8+?
    -30 bits of loot with a 62.5% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

    in 25's you have a better chance of getting the loot you want faster, so people who do 25's have a chance of gearing faster then people who do 10's.
    Pet battle info Compilation: Wild pets, Stats, Abilities, Vids/pics etc!:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...with-stats-etc.
    are you mad cause WoW now has a farming system to use with the new farms it has? keep in mind WoW's had farms since vanilla. Battling pets in a setting like azeroth, with war hungry warlords hardly seems like a stretch.

  16. #1096
    Field Marshal
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    tho i have to give props to blizz for repeadingly selling you less and less content as something NEW, and exiting, at least thats how alot of people see it, as something to look forward to, when at the end of the day it is less work for blizz, less items as in less desing work, less coding, less everything compared to , say, creating entire independent 25 and 10 man content again. haha its brilliant.

  17. #1097

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    10/10 would feed again
    That's your personal preference. Remember there are many players that don't care for 25man raids. This is why Blizz is making this change.

  18. #1098

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    So people are crying because there won't be a (GS-based) reason to run 25s, and therefore fewer people will want to run 25s? So 25s will then be harder to put together from a smaller pool of 25s-interested players?

    Too bad there won't be a smaller size of raid to go clear.


    Oh such a delicious update today.

  19. #1099

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Why would anyone want to continue with a game that is "less interesting", "less difficult". Generally difficulty should progress, not regress.
    I wish everybody thought like that. And a lot of people claim to. Yet, after several wipes, some suddenly get a call from a deadly-ill relative or get a terrible connection. And the next day on wich the boss is planned, nobody is online.

  20. #1100

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Considering most 25man guilds can switch to running 3 10mans without too much effort, the amount of loot required to give a 25man incentive will either be so much that the situation will be the same as it is now or nobody in their right minds will raid 25mans and settle for less loot, especially considering the difficulty will be the same (how they do that without making 25 piss I do not know).

    Have fun!

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