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  1. #1141
    The Patient
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Prag
    Why?

    People running 25's should be running 25's because they have *wait for it* Twenty-Five competent players.

    Not because 25's have a higher ratio of loot per person...
    Why exactly is this? What is wrong with wanting more chances to get what you want.

  2. #1142

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    that is not more epic, 10man hardmodes are more hard and you cant screw up in 10 man if someone screws ut its wipe and 25 man not realy.
    Tell this to the Lich King 25 heroic.

  3. #1143

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Raiding in 10 mans = less likely the item will drop, but more likely you will win it.
    Raiding in 25 mans = more likely the item will drop, but less likely you will win it.

    Warender - Orc Elemental Shaman - Mal'Ganis US

  4. #1144

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos
    This change will cause this:

    1. 25 Raidguilds will vanish with few exceptions
    2. PUGs will be standard
    3. Raiders will run 10-mans with their best players (only some we-want-to-be-world-1st will do 25 to gear up a little faster) doing heroic modes much faster
    4. WoW will lose many old-school and hardcore-players
    5. WoW will get many more 100% casual 1-2 hours/day players

    This could end the raiding style we know love/hate for 5 years - it will open raids to people who never raided (and those are still the majority) and bore the 6+hours/day players causing many of them to leave and play other MMOs. But for Blizzard it means more players, more money. They could care less about hardcore guild QQ if they get a legion of paying casuals in return.

    PS: sorry for my bad english, not my native language.
    You do realize that the 6+ hour/day "hardcore" players are the ones who have been playing the longest, paying the most and seeing the most content... right?

    A lot of the PuGs running around are 25-man players pugging the 10-man stuff. With a shared lockout, I'd expect fewer PuGs.

  5. #1145

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Abnell
    Uhuh, it's fun having to have 25 people on at the same time to raid. Splitting up into 10s wouldn't be more convenient without any downside at all...
    And sarcasm is like my 2nd language, so.. I'm right there with ya.

    I'll remember this post for the next expansion when they faze out 10mans and 5mans become the new way of experiencing content. Then you can say "how fun it is trying to get 10 people on at the same time to raid. Splitting up into 5s wouldn't be more convenient without any downside at all..."

    Yeah, you see what I did there.

  6. #1146

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviltry
    Over one thousand QQ replies, eight more to go.
    Think this will go up to OVER 9000!?!?!

    sorry had too.

    But really everyone. chill...
    LFG is like a playground. the idea is great but retarded kids ruin it for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyskato View Post
    Is it bad that I think that Draenei fan art is really hot?
    fap fap fap
    What?

  7. #1147

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Another food for thought...

    A server per faction only actually has a limited number of people interested, dedicated AND capable of being a "good" raid/guild leader...

    If everything starts switching to 10 man guilds... you will have a lot of 'sucky' guilds run by selfish users.

    As for guilds staying large and running multiple 10 man teams...you always get the "A TEAM and B TEAM" whine. Why can't I be in X team, and that crap breaks up guilds or puts a hell of a negative feeling into raiding and being guild mates.

    another point.

    Lets say they get difficulty balanced through radiance and similar...

    So both 10 man and 25 man are equally challenging on both normal and hard modes (ha ha, never will happen)...

    What will the scrubs do after 5 mans?

    right now you have a logical progression

    5->10->25

    in difficulty and in gear. That progression is ruined.

    Best move for Blizz now, is to scrap copy + pasting instances/loot for different raid sizes.

  8. #1148

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Prag
    You do realize that the 6+ hour/day "hardcore" players are the ones who have been playing the longest, paying the most and seeing the most content... right?

    A lot of the PuGs running around are 25-man players pugging the 10-man stuff. With a shared lockout, I'd expect fewer PuGs.
    I have been playing for 5+ years and paying the same amount as those hardcore players. In fact so has a majority of our casual 25 man guild.

    We pay the same and use less resources, so why should only the hardcore players get what they want?

  9. #1149
    Dreadlord Styria's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Prag

    People running 25's should be running 25's because they have *wait for it* Twenty-Five competent players.

    Not because 25's have a higher ratio of loot per person...
    then why not recruit 5 more competent players and run 3 10 mans?

    25 will have to drop the majority of a loot table to be seen as worthwhile over running just 10 man.

    Leaving for Marine Corps Boot Camp May 9th, 2011. See you all in Firelands!

  10. #1150

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Only very silly people think that less content = more choice.

    As usual, casuals are envious of stable/competent guilds, and celebrate any change that will make it harder for them to operate.

  11. #1151

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    For those who say this will "kill" 25-man: Why save something that you have to force people to do? If no one wants to do it, it deserves to die.

  12. #1152

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    GENTLEMEN, GENTLEMEN! THIS COULD VERY WELL LEAD TO THE END OF THE WORLD.................. of warcraft

  13. #1153

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Cataclysm looked atrocious before and this just adds to it. What a terribly stupid system. I'm guessing their idea of balancing both to be the same difficulty will be making 25s faceroll easy a la most of the ICC 25 HMs.

  14. #1154

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Top complaints of previous News Posts have been:

    1. I hate having to raid the same encounter X times.
    A: Shared lockout.

    2. I hate that some of my BiS items are from 10-man.
    A: Same quality between 10/25.

    3. It's always the same World First 25 guilds that get World First 10.
    A: Shared lockout.
    4. i will have to leave my guild cause they are casual and me and 14 other guys are hardcore and we do 10man HC for the fun and with this we shared lock out we cant raid with our guild friends on normal modes and go HC modes for the epic felling
    Bad - This is a bad player, he refuses to learn how to play correctly.
    Casual - This is a player that will let everything else take priority over wow.
    Hardcore - This is a player that is fine with putting things on hold while he's on wow.
    Bad/Good - Measure of Skill.
    Casual/Hardcore - Measure of Time

  15. #1155

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by soradakey
    Why exactly is this? What is wrong with wanting more chances to get what you want.
    Because, as they stated, filling a dozen slots with anyone willing to jump in isn't fun.

    Having a group of 25 people who are competent and interested in progression is fun, though.

    I'm sure it will cause a lot of Guild drama. No different than the 40->10->25 transitions between Vanilla and TBC.

    I see this as an opportunity for the community to see more than just 25 Hard Mode as the top line of progression. Am I the only one seeing the positive in this? It's giving us choice where we previously had little, while also not demanding we see the same fucking bosses 2-4 times a week.

  16. #1156

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Jathro
    And sarcasm is like my 2nd language, so.. I'm right there with ya.

    I'll remember this post for the next expansion when they faze out 10mans and 5mans become the new way of experiencing content. Then you can say "how fun it is trying to get 10 people on at the same time to raid. Splitting up into 5s wouldn't be more convenient without any downside at all..."

    Yeah, you see what I did there.
    You're totally right, this isn't dumb because it could be even dumber!

  17. #1157

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Odyssasthai
    For those who say this will "kill" 25-man: Why save something that you have to force people to do? If no one wants to do it, it deserves to die.
    I 100% prefer 25 mans over 10 mans. I avoid 10 mans like the plague. Not forced at all so it doesn't deserve to die. Making the game cater for incompetents, does however.

  18. #1158
    The Patient
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Odyssasthai
    For those who say this will "kill" 25-man: Why save something that you have to force people to do? If no one wants to do it, it deserves to die.
    How exactly are people forced to do 25m?

  19. #1159

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Sounds like the end of 25s to me. I enjoy 10s as well so maybe it won't be so bad. With only 1 lockout per instance I think there will be a lot more alt raids instead of doing both a 10 & 25 on mains. I think this could reduce the value of being in a large raiding guild though. There are likely to be a lot more small raiding guilds.

  20. #1160

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Looks like balancing problem. Spreading, for example, isn't problem in 10m at all. While in 25m something like BQL flight always can turn to wipe. Saying boss A will be easier in 10m, any harcore 25m guild will call out 15 people to kill him ASAP.

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