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  1. #1181
    Brewmaster dahawk's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    let me get this right 10/25 share same lockout..lame i liked the fact i could OT tank in 25 and MT tank in 10 now there gonna share the same id.. :'(

  2. #1182
    Stood in the Fire
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    All i can say it has it ups and downs.

  3. #1183

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrarchy
    I personally welcome this change. Since BC me and a few friends always enjoyed the 10 man raids a heck of a lot more than the 25man ones - easier to find a stable group of like-minded people who will show up and be competent. ZA was good times. Still challenging, but less frustrating. We would wipe because our strategy or execution was bad, and we could work on fights and get better, instead of just having our 20-25th worst players dragging down the whole group.

    When WotLK was announced with 10/25 raid possibilities, we were very excited about forming a 10man-oriented guild, but soon found that we felt like we were gimping ourselves with inferior loot prospects, and that 25man pugs were in better shape than us. This basically forced us into recruiting to fill 25-man raids, which were never as much fun. But we did ok and got the lewtz.

    While its too early to make any decision on if we will drop our 25 in favor of a 10man core group, its looking a lot more attractive than it was in WotLK.
    If you enjoyed 10 mans for the sake of raiding, you wouldn't care about loot. As it stands, it sounds like you're just another loot whore who seeks gratification through shiny purples, not the content.

  4. #1184

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by jpicob
    I´m very upset for this change >.... this will probably destroy a lot of 25man guilds ´cause the top 10 players of the guilds will not waste time gearing up the lats 15...
    This should be posted a million times. It's basic human nature.

    This is not healthy for 25-man guilds. It probably won't break up Ensidia or any super-duper-hardcore guild, but the other 99% of 25-man raiding guilds will be hurt by this. At most, they may raid 25-man for hard mode, and that's about it.

  5. #1185

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksmota
    Wow, the ONE fight that was harder on 10 than 25. Damn, you sure owned him with your single isolated incident!
    That fight alone proves that 10-man hard modes don't have to be easier than 25-man.

    And no, I'm not 13 so I wasn't after "owning" anyone. I simply pointed out that he was wrong. I apologize if my comment upset you. ^^

  6. #1186

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by sneaky7
    You can normally divide most players in two groups: those who want to play and those who want loot.
    People that want to play, probably, can be divided into those who want 10 mans and those who want 25 mans (i believe more of them want 25s).
    People that want loot, allways go for the easier way to get it (read - 10s).
    And, most probably, there are more people who want loots rather than those who wants to play. And not everybody of those who want to play, actually wants 25s. But those who want, will still never get those 25s, since most other people prefer 10s and it will be way much harder to gather a 25-man group.
    Actually, I disagree with you. I prefer to do 10-man because I generally don't like people; by this, I mean the larger the group, the more chance there's someone there that will annoy me. Also, Vent is so much noisier on 25-man. It's tiresome.

    Also, I disagree a bit about 10-man being the easier route in all cases. Our guild had 2-3 10-mans as a precursor to our 25-man ToC/ICC runs. 2 of them failed miserably because they were bottom heavy with "rank-and-file" types. They are great 25-man players, but didn't have the correct skill set to thrive in 10-man.

  7. #1187

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by emni
    Like Sarth+3D, right? :

    Intriguing how people try to sound like die-hard hard-core payers without having a single clue...
    an isolated incident, however not due to being challenging or heart racing, just due to buff scaling, however

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0bKPY4scyQ

    fights like that are ultimately jokes.

  8. #1188

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksmota
    If you enjoyed 10 mans for the sake of raiding, you wouldn't care about loot. As it stands, it sounds like you're just another loot whore who seeks gratification through shiny purples, not the content.
    loot IS the game, don't pretend like you dont know it

  9. #1189

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Do people that post on MMO-C read anything? Ever?

    Half these responses are kneejerk reactions or trolls.

    "&#^%@ blizz you ruined my life!"
    "No more 25 man raids!"
    "No extraloot from 25 mans?!? wtf!"
    "No better loot from 25 mans?! i want my epeen!"


    Seriously, the completely lack of reading comprehension and level of ignorance is amazing.
    As for prot... haha losers he dmg needs a nerf with the intercept shield bash wtf silence crit a clothie like a mofo.
    Wow.

  10. #1190

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsesakama
    This should be posted a million times. It's basic human nature.

    This is not healthy for 25-man guilds. It probably won't break up Ensidia or any super-duper-hardcore guild, but the other 99% of 25-man raiding guilds will be hurt by this. At most, they may raid 25-man for hard mode, and that's about it.
    In that case the guild was BROKEN to begin with.

  11. #1191

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    If this change between loot goes through, and is completely even ground, I may renew my subscription.

  12. #1192

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Prag
    The 10+baggage Guilds are, like mine, doing Hard Mode in 10 and normal on 25.

    The 25-man guilds are getting server/us/eu/world firsts.
    So you're saying that the only options are "server first" or "10-man guild." Right?

    That's gonna kill the majority of 25-man guilds, exactly like everyone has been saying.

  13. #1193

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Well,

    You cant stop change and blizzard will cater for where ever the majority of the current players want; as as most people want easy stuff then they will go down that path. However, my points if anyone actually cares are: -

    1) If the same quality loot drops from 10's and 25's raids really what is the point of running a 25 person guild? There is little incentive tbh if there is synergie between loot & achievements; as currently there is a distinction between a 10 raiding guild and a 25 raiding guild through gear and achievements. If you look at the hassle and difficulties that guild leaders have in making sure that they have the right classes, motivated and players to form a sucessful 25 raid then why go through all that hassle if you can just be 10 friends online for 1 night a week to clear all content, get all loot and get all achievements?

    What will likely happen with these changes is that there will be far fewer Larger guilds running and more smaller guilds runnign 10's; if this is what blizzard want then well i guess we cant stop that can we.

    2) More loot will drop in 25's because there will be more people ofc so in 10's there might be 1 warlock, 1 mage and 1 priest and in 25's there might be 9 of thoes classes hence more loot so dont let this distract you.

    3) The whole setup suggested is good except for the changes in gear quality, i thinks its just Blizzard wanting to Homoganise gear to the point that a priest will be wearing the same gear as a warlock and mage.

    4) Gear inflation (itemlevel) is just a joke as Blizzard have caused this problem them selves. Give more choice of stats, different looks etc on gear as apposed to +10 on all stats all around. To say this fixes item inflation is just a lame excuse for reducing the items that need to be created.

    Essentially, if yiou put in the effort to raid25 content thene there should be different achievements, better quality gear to reward the time and effort spent; pritty much as it is now.

    Welcome to WoW Casual, the ultimate easy online game.


  14. #1194

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Wythel

    Fail, it was 15 man
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Blackrock_Spire

    and i quote "Upper Blackrock Spire - Intended for 10 party members."

  15. #1195

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    people were omg end of the world whinge cry when they announced there would be 25 mans instead of 40 mans as well, and it worked out fine

  16. #1196

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Diurden
    people were omg end of the world whinge cry when they announced there would be 25 mans instead of 40 mans as well, and it worked out fine
    Looking forward to 5 man and single person raids. :

  17. #1197

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ollakka
    In that case the guild was BROKEN to begin with.
    My guild has been together for 4.5 years. We're also Horde first in progression. PLEASE don't try to tell me my guild is broken.

  18. #1198

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksmota
    If you enjoyed 10 mans for the sake of raiding, you wouldn't care about loot. As it stands, it sounds like you're just another loot whore who seeks gratification through shiny purples, not the content.
    If 25m players don't care about loot, why do they care what drops in 10-man? It goes both ways.

  19. #1199
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronnix
    I duno how come you see 10man as a joke. The current loot is decent for the amount of time you spend setting the raids together and leading it.
    If 10 mans are tuned pretty much around the 10 strict guilds now, then I'll be happy. None of them (according to guildox) have downed H LK10. Yea, this is the perfect view to look at it from. Everyone else went into ICC10 with ICC25 gear and roflstomped it. 10 strict guilds I'm guessing find H ICC10 pretty difficult.

    I don't think it will be as hard to balance 10 and 25 out. We're not all lootwhores. I don't even raid that much. I see this for what it is. No more retarded 4 raids a week in the same instance, no more incredibly large gear inflation, and hopefully there is less bitching from both sides(10/25 raiders).
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  20. #1200

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksmota
    Looking forward to 5 man and single person raids. :
    soloing ZG is pretty fun i don't see why it couldn't work :P

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