Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Ksmota]

Let's be honest here, most of the time 10 out of every 25 group know wtf they're doing anyways.

Maybe in your terrible guild that clears content 6 months after it's released. This is the same crap line that was dropped with 40 mans. What's next? "3 out of every 10 man group know wtf they're doing anyways"? :

I can't wait to see them balance 10s and 25s at the same difficulty. Will be even more faceroll than it is now.

[zeo]

Gratz to all 10 fucking strict raiders and casuals who still win once again and hardcores just got another killing blow, I hate you all.
And all those saying 'Finally no more retards in 25-man, can raid 10-man with 10 pros' not all guilds have retards like yours. Oh wait, those who have are stuck on shit progression, so not even going to count you.

[Odyssasthai]

Perhaps you should take a broader look at the game, it is far too easy. Everyone, even chinese bots can get 245+ gear. The future 10 man "normal" will be designed as a loot piñata, as they have said repeatedly they want "all" to see content. And in 10 mans you have to undertune everything due to poorly geared whining saps. So the game will become easier. /yawn.

Yeah, the game is so easy--look at all those folks that downed Heroic LK!

And, bonus points for sneaking in a racist comment. A sure winner there.

[emni]

100% of the memorable rewarding heart racing hard mode kills have always been 25 man ones, 10 man Hard modes have always been a joke in comparison.

Like Sarth+3D, right? :

Intriguing how people try to sound like die-hard hard-core payers without having a single clue...

[Ollakka]

Race for the EU/US first 10m kill and 25m kill will be more interesting now... i might care for once.

[Ksmota]

Like Sarth+3D, right? :

Intriguing how people try to sound like die-hard hard-core payers without having a single clue...

Wow, the ONE fight that was harder on 10 than 25. Damn, you sure owned him with your single isolated incident!

[rkma]

Basically, it sounds like you're confirming what I assume are their intentions:

Separate the 25-man Guilds from the 10-man + Baggage Guilds.

Again, why is this a bad thing?

Because it will be very difficult form or maintain a 25-man guild. Any guild that cannot perform as well in 25-man raids as they do in 10-man raids will always choose 10-mans. Why risk it?

How do you become a "25-man guild" without being a "10-man + baggage guild" at some point?

[TabascoEU]

The other problem with 10 man guilds...doing the harder content...no spares.

if your tank doesn't log will you have spare tanks...if a healer doesn't log will you have a spare healer etc. You are for more likely to run a 25 man guild with even over 10 spare players of a variety of roles, taking turns playing when they feel like and so on, but 10mans become far more demanding, turn up or you let the guild down. = Not fun. and having spares for all roles in a 10 man team means proportionally far too many have to sit out also.

[Skr]

The idea seems great, I'm looking forward to it.

[Diurden]

this is a kick in the face for casuals, they are going to have to actually earn their spot instead of getting carried in 25's

[Dreirden]

100% of the memorable rewarding heart racing hard mode kills have always been 25 man ones, 10 man Hard modes have always been a joke in comparison.

That is because you were in 25 man gear.

[evilgnomey]

fun fact, 10 mans where here before 25's.

Upper Blackrock Spire = 10 man from vanilla.
there was NO 25 mans in vanilla WoW.

[Prag]

Because it will be very difficult form or maintain a 25-man guild. Any guild that cannot perform as well in 25-man raids as they do in 10-man raids will always choose 10-mans. Why risk it?

How do you become a "25-man guild" without being a "10-man + baggage guild" at some point?

The 10+baggage Guilds are, like mine, doing Hard Mode in 10 and normal on 25.

The 25-man guilds are getting server/us/eu/world firsts.

[Tetrarchy]

I personally welcome this change. Since BC me and a few friends always enjoyed the 10 man raids a heck of a lot more than the 25man ones - easier to find a stable group of like-minded people who will show up and be competent. ZA was good times. Still challenging, but less frustrating. We would wipe because our strategy or execution was bad, and we could work on fights and get better, instead of just having our 20-25th worst players dragging down the whole group.

When WotLK was announced with 10/25 raid possibilities, we were very excited about forming a 10man-oriented guild, but soon found that we felt like we were gimping ourselves with inferior loot prospects, and that 25man pugs were in better shape than us. This basically forced us into recruiting to fill 25-man raids, which were never as much fun. But we did ok and got the lewtz.

While its too early to make any decision on if we will drop our 25 in favor of a 10man core group, its looking a lot more attractive than it was in WotLK.

[Wythel]

fun fact, 10 mans where here before 25's.

Upper Blackrock Spire = 10 man from vanilla.
there was NO 25 mans in vanilla WoW.

Fail, it was 15 man

[dahawk]

let me get this right 10/25 share same lockout..lame i liked the fact i could OT tank in 25 and MT tank in 10 now there gonna share the same id.. :'(

[Norn]

All i can say it has it ups and downs.

[Ksmota]

I personally welcome this change. Since BC me and a few friends always enjoyed the 10 man raids a heck of a lot more than the 25man ones - easier to find a stable group of like-minded people who will show up and be competent. ZA was good times. Still challenging, but less frustrating. We would wipe because our strategy or execution was bad, and we could work on fights and get better, instead of just having our 20-25th worst players dragging down the whole group.

When WotLK was announced with 10/25 raid possibilities, we were very excited about forming a 10man-oriented guild, but soon found that we felt like we were gimping ourselves with inferior loot prospects, and that 25man pugs were in better shape than us. This basically forced us into recruiting to fill 25-man raids, which were never as much fun. But we did ok and got the lewtz.

While its too early to make any decision on if we will drop our 25 in favor of a 10man core group, its looking a lot more attractive than it was in WotLK.

If you enjoyed 10 mans for the sake of raiding, you wouldn't care about loot. As it stands, it sounds like you're just another loot whore who seeks gratification through shiny purples, not the content.

[rkma]

I´m very upset for this change >.... this will probably destroy a lot of 25man guilds ´cause the top 10 players of the guilds will not waste time gearing up the lats 15...

This should be posted a million times. It's basic human nature.

This is not healthy for 25-man guilds. It probably won't break up Ensidia or any super-duper-hardcore guild, but the other 99% of 25-man raiding guilds will be hurt by this. At most, they may raid 25-man for hard mode, and that's about it.

[emni]

Wow, the ONE fight that was harder on 10 than 25. Damn, you sure owned him with your single isolated incident!

That fight alone proves that 10-man hard modes don't have to be easier than 25-man.

And no, I'm not 13 so I wasn't after "owning" anyone. I simply pointed out that he was wrong. I apologize if my comment upset you. ^^