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  1. #1241

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBuckwald
    Haha wow...
    You missed the point I was making I guess...

    Just because you don't agree with a change doesn't mean you should quit a game that you have been playing for 2,3,4 years. You should fight for it and voice your opinions


  2. #1242

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    Blizzard seems to have a firm grasp of what is going on in their games.

    Like paladins and deathknights


    and arena
    I'd say they do actually, considering how they crush everyone else in the MMO field. There's no one even close to them.

    However, if you have a lack of faith in Blizz, then why are you even here? If Paladins, DKs and Arenas are indictment enough, you should've left long ago.

  3. #1243
    Scarab Lord Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Christ people. noone said they were making 25mans easier. could be that 10mans get harder.

    then again, this is world of casuals.

    think Heroic raids is the new "25mans"
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  4. #1244

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverrend
    Atleast fucking time. Thanks blizzard


    Now u dont need to get 24 other noobs that dont know what the fuck they are doing to see new bosses


    just get 9 friends / guildies and riad
    "to see new bosses"

    you can do that atm. all 25 man encounters have a 10 man equivalent atm.

  5. #1245

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Odyssasthai
    Blizzard has said it will be more efficient to get loot in 25-man. Argument over then, right?
    But Blizzard is wrong, because it's only "more efficient" if you can still clear the same content with 25 people instead of 10. But the reality is, it will always be easier to find 10 great players instead of 25 great players. It doesn't matter what server you're on, how good your recruitment is, or anything else. It's just a fact.

  6. #1246

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsesakama
    My guild is 4.5 years old and we're top in Horde progression. But we also have players who enjoy 10 mans and form a tight-knit group for achievements. There are many guilds like mine.

    None of us think this is a good idea.
    Yeah, I read it the last time you posted it.

    I don't see what your issue is... You're doing fine in 25's. You do 10's for achievements.... This is saving you time, and you can do it all in one run?

    Is your issue that there won't be anything to do after your initial 25? They've already answered that by stating that there would be multiple Raids. Roll an alt. I don't know, but you've played this long, and I'd bet my last dollar you'll be right here this time next year.

  7. #1247
    Scarab Lord Buckwald's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    You missed the point I was making I guess...

    Just because you don't agree with a change doesn't mean you should quit a game that you have been playing for 2,3,4 years. You should fight for it and voice your opinions

    I said that because of your "America" part of that.

  8. #1248
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I cant decide whether I like it or not.

    + More tanks will be needed. I'm a tank, well... actually I'm four tanks, so that's good. and I don't think they gonna tune it so you need 2 tanks in 10 and 5 in 25 men. not gonna happen. or 1 on 10 and 3 in 25, also not gonna happen. I'm quite sure about it - so basically it will stay at 2 in 10 and ... well ... 2-3 in 25.
    + Even they wrote the difficulty in 10 an 25 man is aimed to be quite the same, 10 man will be harder because less buffer for making errors. 1 player fail is 10 pct in 10 men and 4 pct in 25 men. So hooray for 10 men!

    - Since WoW came out, it always was a race for the best gear. Don't talk bullshit and say you raid because you want to have fun with your friends - if you would, you won't be here on this page. With the change of 10 men and 25 men dropping the same loot, 25 men is pretty much pointless. The difference is, in 25 men you fight with more people for more loot. Any sense? I don't think so.
    - For those who act in that manner, why bother having guilds? 90% of all serious 10 men raiders right now all have their cross-guild-10-men-fixed-group they raid with. I'm 100% sure, they will continue with that. Many, many, many, many guilds will break up because of this.

    Hard decision. But I guess, I'd go with "I don't like it"

  9. #1249
    I am Murloc! muto's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    i got a pretty good comp set up for this

    http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000


  10. #1250

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    Blizzard seems to have a firm grasp of what is going on in their games.

    Like paladins and deathknights


    and arena
    Aaaahhh I seeeee. You know exactly what is wrong with these things and how to fix them yes? All the while balancing it around all the other classes? Yes? Making sure all the spells aren't going to unbalance something else? Yes?

    Yeah I'm sure you got this covered, you should send in your sketches/thought/essays to Blizzard to show them just how wrong they are.
    "Certainly no one who is not a desirable parent should be permitted to produce progeny." - Tesla knew WoW was coming.
    (these two are in order of posting)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chockolate View Post
    Derp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chockolate View Post
    I was actually expecting more people to agree with me. It seems like these forums are a place where young adults can show their debating skills.


  11. #1251

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    You missed the point I was making I guess...

    Just because you don't agree with a change doesn't mean you should quit a game that you have been playing for 2,3,4 years. You should fight for it and voice your opinions

    I missed the part where you said that at all. Seems to me like you were bashing America about being a bunch of quitters.

  12. #1252

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I stopped reading the responses after page 5. I just wanted to put in my $.02 to anyone who cares.

    I'm an officer of a 10-man exclusive guild...in other words, the toons in our guild aren't even allowed into 25-mans. We raid 10-man content in 10-man gear. So obviously, I love this change. 10-mans are infinitely more enjoyable, because you actually raid with your friends. The problem has always been that not only is it difficult to hold a guild together that only runs 10-mans, but it is difficult to be taken seriously. And really, at our skill level, 10-man is pretty easy, even with lesser gear.

    This system can absolutely work if Blizzard amps up the difficulty of 10-man raids. Something has to compensate for not having to manage so many other people. In the new (old) world of mana management for healers, if 10-man bosses perhaps had more health relative to the DPS in comparison to 25-mans, then it would create a less forgiving environment for mistakes in 10-mans, because healers can't save you from your mistakes the way they can in 25-mans. Perhaps a boss that is a basic tank-and-spank in 25-man is more of a battle for survival in 10-man.

    Imagiine being able to more easily pug a 25-man than a 10-man, because 10-mans actually require more intelligence. Then you'd have heroics which require intelligence on both difficulties, but only the truly elite can do it on 10-man.

    But, bottom line...if you want to keep people involved, raids have to have tiered progression again. Welfare epics just don't work in such a scenario. With one raid lockout, if people only have to concentrate on the current tier of raiding no matter where they started, then boredom will set in VERY quickly.

    I absolutely see the potential, and it's a bold move by Blizzard. Looking forward to see how it pans out.

  13. #1253

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    You missed the point I was making I guess...

    Just because you don't agree with a change doesn't mean you should quit a game that you have been playing for 2,3,4 years. You should fight for it and voice your opinions

    I don't think anyone is arguing with that though... but you (wrongly) accused of an entire nation of being quitters. Not only does it show historical and cultural ignorance, it shows prejudice. Hence, the "haha wow" he gave you.

  14. #1254

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsesakama
    Now you're just being ridiculous.

    Because they're people? Because I think this change is bad for them (and for me)?
    You totally skipped my last (important) point:

    I am one of those people. Hell, I'd bet the majority of the people in this thread are along the same line.

    Why exactly is this going to destroy the Guilds in question again? That point seems to have been missed.

  15. #1255

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    i wanna see how they will balance this, since in 25 man raids u get 2.5 more chances of someone screw up. And cant say that the strong point of bliz is balancing. They probably will just tunne up the hp of the bosses, shame shame.

  16. #1256

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by muto
    i got a pretty good comp set up for this

    http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000
    No warriors, no DKs, no mages, and all specs defined for the classes you do take...

    already the FLAVOUR OF THE MONTH comps are starting, defining everyones guild and futures of their class......

    this just doesn't happen with 25 mans, look at all the first kills of a variety of major bosses in 25 mans, the compositions vary...will they with HM 10 mans... if they are truly hard the 10 man comps will not be varied at all. Then every avg. guild will just copy + paste, specs/classes/talents.

  17. #1257

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Love it. Fucking love it.

    This thread is 85 pages long and counting for one reason. Thats because the people too many people who post weren't around in the time when this game became popular. If you joined in BC or Wrath, you're obviously going to complain, because you are used to getting your epics handed to you. For those of us left from Pre-BC, I think this change will really hit home for us.

    I expect to see a change in the player base for sure, but hell, I don't care. I'd rather play with people who started to play for the same reason I did.
    I wouldn't

  18. #1258

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I'm in favor of this change, because I prefer 10 man raiding. I just hope they actually manage the whole difficulty thing properly.

  19. #1259

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    What a lot of people seem to forget are guild levels. Maybe they will make 25mans lucrative through some guild talents.

  20. #1260

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekosom
    This system can absolutely work if Blizzard amps up the difficulty of 10-man raids. Something has to compensate for not having to manage so many other people. In the new (old) world of mana management for healers, if 10-man bosses perhaps had more health relative to the DPS in comparison to 25-mans, then it would create a less forgiving environment for mistakes in 10-mans, because healers can't save you from your mistakes the way they can in 25-mans. Perhaps a boss that is a basic tank-and-spank in 25-man is more of a battle for survival in 10-man.
    If Blizzard makes 10-mans harder than 25-mans (in the way that 10-man OS-3D was harder) then you're right, it won't kill 25-man guilds. But it will just mean that 10-mans become the harder content.

    There's no way to properly balance 10 and 25. There will always be a difference.

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