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  1. #1301
    High Overlord Critzngritz's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This is not set in stone yet, or at least they had hope it isn't. UNLESS We have so much raid content it would be almost imposable to do each raid on our toons during the week.
    So my opinion, 10's should not = 25's at all, in any way, shape, or form. Same lockout = bad idea unless they will be offering more content, at a faster rate.

  2. #1302

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ollakka
    Think of 10man and 25man as arena ladders.... like 3v3 and 5v5.

    Play the one you can for same rewards.
    Great, make raiding like arena. That's a BRILLIANT idea.

  3. #1303

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai
    I was waiting for an excuse to stop raiding, i think i just found it :'(
    Translation: People who do 10m will get MY gear. NOOOOOOOOOO!

    Seriously folks, what's the big harm here? No more grinding emblems by doing the same raid in 10 and 25. No more running an extra 10m that you mostly don't care about so you can roll on 1 trinket, maybe. Oh noes. In Cata, doing something twice a week will offer variety, since you can go on an alt instead.

    I think a lot of people might be freaking out too because they think the difficulty gap will still be the same. But with more sharing of unique buffs (e.g. Hero/BL for mages) and consolidating buffs (pally blessings, for example), encounter designers will be able to make things harder for 10m groups. Implementing the loot changes right now would be pretty bad, but we should look at it all in the actual context, most of which we don't even know.

  4. #1304

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I think the main reasons behind these changes are...

    Videogames should be your second life... not your only one.

    Doing 10 and 25 man - heroic and none heroic + alts.... Burned out or not... Its just not healthy for anyone.
    Its sick and Blizzard should not promote such gaming habits. And they are changing it. Thankfully.

  5. #1305

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by seam
    At first reading it, my very first thought was "Well, there goes 25 mans."

    But, thinking about it, it wont.

    If they make 10 and 25 man just as hard, and 25 giving more loot to make it the quicker gearing option, it will be better for the game as a whole.

    10 mans will be able to be tuned in 25 man gear.

    So, think of it like this...

    Instead of:
    Run 10 man, learn fights.
    Run 25 man with knowing the fights, get gear.
    Run 10 man heroic with 25 man gear, making it easy.
    Run 25 man heroic knowing fights learned from 10 man.


    Now:
    Run 10/25(Whichever you do.) man.




    Also, this will help burnout from players running 10, 10HM, 25, 25HM each week(In ToC terms, 10 and 25 speaking of ICC)


    So, as a 25 man(And 40 before that) raider for 4 years, I approve.
    This man speaks the truth.

    I try to run my guild's ten mans, but they always seem to do two things:

    1. Cause drama with the people who didn't get to go
    2. Burn out the people who actually do go

    This change will make raiding more fun in general.

    As a raider since early TBC, I also approve.

  6. #1306

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    While this is off topic, at least everyone has probably read a book of comments

  7. #1307

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Of all the days for my account payment to be pending!!! UGHHH!
    "Please find my dear friends.
    Dead or Alive" -redmakoto

  8. #1308

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    cancelled subscription

  9. #1309

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    R.I.P 25 man raiding

  10. #1310

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsesakama
    Great, make raiding like arena. That's a BRILLIANT idea.
    Thats what they are doing with "LOOT EPICS PIXELS AND STUFF".


    I was thinking of leaving WoW before catalysm, but this change made my toes tickle and ready to burn another 100euro for this game. Asuming this will happen.

    There is always diablo3.... someday.

  11. #1311

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Rootofalleli
    Translation: People who do 10m will get MY gear. NOOOOOOOOOO!

    Seriously folks, what's the big harm here? No more grinding emblems by doing the same raid in 10 and 25. No more running an extra 10m that you mostly don't care about so you can roll on 1 trinket, maybe. Oh noes. In Cata, doing something twice a week will offer variety, since you can go on an alt instead.

    I think a lot of people might be freaking out too because they think the difficulty gap will still be the same. But with more sharing of unique buffs (e.g. Hero/BL for mages) and consolidating buffs (pally blessings, for example), encounter designers will be able to make things harder for 10m groups. Implementing the loot changes right now would be pretty bad, but we should look at it all in the actual context, most of which we don't even know.
    10 man content has always been easier. Why do you need top tier loot for content that doesn't require it? It makes much more sense to have 10/25 share the same lockout and drop the same items but at a lower ilvl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalon
    I think the main reasons behind these changes are...

    Videogames should be your second life... not your only one.

    Doing 10 and 25 man - heroic and none heroic + alts.... Burned out or not... Its just not healthy for anyone.
    Its sick and Blizzard should not promote such gaming habits. And they are changing it. Thankfully.
    Since when did Blizzard become our doctor? If someone wants to raid 8 hours a day then that's their prerogative. Long raids have been around in MMOs for over a decade now and nothing catastrophic has happened. If someone pays $15 a month to play a game, they should be able to play it as much as they want and not how long some guy sitting in a cubicle at Blizzard thinks they should play it. That's a terrible excuse and justification for Blizzard taking the lazy way out.

  12. #1312

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Why in the hell if i do a 25man would i want the same loot as some 10man raider.
    It doesn't matter how hard you try, its always going to be easier with 10people.
    Easier to find 10 good players, easier to coordinate.
    There going to have to overtune the 10 player stuff. And even then, its still just easier.
    I said this in early BC, 10man's will kill this game to nothing. They might as well just make 5man raids. And get rid of 10 and 25 shit.

    I want 25 and 40 player size raids.

    10 man's are easier to group comp change, Changing a 25 requires a more people todo so.
    Bornakk"Increasingly it felt like someone playing against a Ret-Pally really only had 60% of their health bar because Vindication took away 20% from the start and then Hammer of Wrath kicked in when they had 20% left. This change was something we could confidently hotfix and would have a minimal to no impact on the PvE side of things. "
    VINDICATION TAKES 20% HEALTH /facepalm

  13. #1313
    Brewmaster Prozac's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Am i the only one enjoying the ammount of pages? ;D

  14. #1314

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalon
    I think the main reasons behind these changes are...

    Videogames should be your second life... not your only one.

    Its sick and Blizzard should not promote such gaming habits. And they are changing it. Thankfully.
    lol ok.

    OR

    Activision CEO: Sure, your customers pay $15 a month..but if you give them too much stuff to do, then they won't have any time to play any of our other games. What can we do to get them to play LESS so they will have time to buy our other games ?

  15. #1315

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Thnagera
    This man speaks the truth.

    I try to run my guild's ten mans, but they always seem to do two things:

    1. Cause drama with the people who didn't get to go
    2. Burn out the people who actually do go


    This change will make raiding more fun in general.

    As a raider since early TBC, I also approve.
    This, a million times. After we do 25m, I try to get two 10m groups going. But, no, there are only 16 people who can stay on so late. So I get whiny tells from 6 people who have to sit. And the people who do get chosen stay up ridiculously late. Win-win right there : :-\ :'(

  16. #1316
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    McDonald, TN.
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    763

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Personally, I think this is an AMAZING change. I've long wondered, as well as questioned, why Blizzard did not have this or something similar. I mainly was hoping for it to be applied to heroic settings. Currently, Heroic 10-man raids drop the same ilevel as normal 25. I've wondered why they didn't just allow heroic 10s to have the same loot as normal 25. That way, 10-man only guilds would be able to acquire Legendaries, yet there will still be a reason to do 25s since Heroic 25 would drop gear you cannot get in 10-man raids.

    The upcoming change is different of course, but I still like it. Seems like it would be hard to balance, but perhaps not. The only thing they would have to change is boss/add HP I suppose, since bosses should hit the same (Same gear in 10/25 means you have the same tank, essentialy). This change just allows MORE guilds to be 10man as feeling like they have to be 25 to be on top of the game. With the same raid lockout, I don't see it killing 25-man guilds as people are QQing. As stated in Blizzard's release of info, it will be more efficient to run 25 if you are able to. You will receive more loot, emblems, and gold. Therefore if you are capable of running 25, then you should. You're more likely to see loot drop you need, although I'm not as much of a math wizard as others, and cannot determine whether or not you will have a higher chance of getting said loot (There are also many variables, such as raid composition and your own roles, that play into this).


    Long story short: Great change, props to Blizzard. As always, there are doomsayers saying it will kill the game and guilds. It won't kill the game or your precious 25-man guild. There are still incentives for you to stay 25-man if you are able to. This change just makes the raids even more accessible to 10-man groups.
    I'll not spend my days glancing over my shoulder for assassins. Let them look back for me. --Elbryan, the Nightbird.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ath/nightbird/

  17. #1317

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I don't know if this has already been asked but what I question is how will the raid locks be handled.

    For instance, if a 25man is started on day one and on day two 5 of the 25 can not make it due to rl and can not be replaced, how will the transition to 10man work? Will the 20 people have to decide which 10 will be continuing on that raid ID while the other 10 basically get screwed over for the week? If that will be the case why bother doing 25mans at all with that risk if 2-3 10mans would be more viable considering the same gear quality. Unless I totally misread the notes.

  18. #1318

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Translation: People who do 10m will get MY gear. NOOOOOOOOOO!
    Bad translation. Gear is a tool, not the aim. The aim is "kill the boss". A lot of ppl are crying (me 2) 'cuz they love 25m guilds. When it's loud, chaotic, different-country-persons mess in /g, vent, /ra. That's actually that some people need. They dont like to be in small guilds when u need to be very-freaking-awesome players to do hard raids. In 25 ppl it's actually work of structured system that raiders make, not 100% personal skill, but "building-up-together" skill too.

  19. #1319

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Is it just me or are the ppl that used 25 man gear to go 10 heroic - crying the loudest here ?

    Rewards should be based on difficulty..

    How on earth can you claim that running 10 mans in 25 man gear - getting the same lvl items as those that are doing it on only 10 man is fair rewarding system ?

    Seriously guys... 10 mans should not even have been an option for ppl in 25 man raiding gear in the first place !

  20. #1320

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalon
    Is it just me or are the ppl that used 25 man gear to go 10 heroic - crying the loudest here ?

    Rewards should be based on difficulty..

    How on earth can you claim that running 10 mans in 25 man gear - getting the same lvl items as those that are doing it on only 10 man is fair rewarding system ?

    Seriously guys... 10 mans should not even have been an option for ppl in 25 man raiding gear in the first place !
    Which guild was it again that said of Lich King 10 (normal): "I don't think it can be done by a non-25-togc guild right now".

    Just more reinforcement for what you're saying.

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