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  1. #121

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Not happy with this at all :/.
    ~ Streaming stuff and drawings ~

  2. #122

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Man, this is going to fragment guilds like crazy. There tend to be better and worse players in a 25 man group. The better ones are going to realize that they can get better loot (from doing later bosses in a raid), by just doing a 10 man with the best folks. Sure, they may not get quite as much loot per person, but they can kill more bosses to make up for that, and those later bosses will probably have better gear anyway (and they will have a better chance at hardmodes too).

    Ugh.

  3. #123
    The Patient
    Join Date
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    The nerve.

    So basically the advantage of 25 man raiding is more gold? fuck 25 man raiding
    I got 99 problems, but mah bubble ain't one

  4. #124

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I don't like where this is going, but that's just my personal opinion as a 25man raider. However, I think it'll be extremely hard try to balance the difficulty of 10 / 25man raids so that people choose the raid they want to be in, instead of the raid that's easier.

    Don't doubt whether or not blizzard can make hard 10man content. Given 10man gear, sarth 3D, firefighter, algalon, H LK are pretty much all as challenging as 25man content if not more. The problem is that I can totally see an end boss on 10man is easier than an end boss on 25 man or the other way around, which will force A LOT of guilds do the easier version for loot. That defeats the whole purpose of "choosing the raid style you enjoy" idea.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  5. #125

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by M1kra
    They aren't making 25man raiding pointless, they are making 10man raids better.
    The two go hand in hand.

    Seriously, why not just go back to making certain raids only available in 10-man versions. Like how Kara was. But 25-mans should still be where you wanna be. This change to make 10mans better will slowly destroy 25mans. Why carry 10 bad players through when you can group with 9 good players and get the same gear?

  6. #126

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Repeating myself:

    Guild Leveling and Path of Titans.

  7. #127

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This will be the death of 25 man raids. The "motivation" they are including for doing the 25 man versions (more gold, a few more items) will not be enough.

  8. #128

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    In the current format this would be terrible, but for cata it might work, sadly people will see Current 10s (easy) and think there the same as cata 10s, if they manage the balance, and off set the badges and loot so 25ers get a lot more (im cool with this, and with these changes planning to go totally 10 man) then this is a good and welcome change.


    25s will be under risk here mind for this reason, Why raid with the morons that make the filler in your 25 man raid group when you can just make a 10 man with Friends etc, Hell if anything this will make the game harder to do harder raids if your terrible, as people can just kick you/leave your guild with ample replacements in a smaller format, Small pocket guilds of terrible players will rise and be laughed at.

    Wow, this is great.

  9. #129

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    At first I thought it was a great idea but slowly guilds will realize that they will profit more with 10 mans, I mean sure they are giving 25 more loot but it would have to be MUCH more loot because guilds will just do 2/3 10man groups and get 3 times the drops
    Quote Originally Posted by Sojoez
    Just remember, when life's a sour bitch... Make some bitching lemonade!* :P


  10. #130
    Bloodsail Admiral Seregon's Avatar
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    1,247

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Meanwhile, in Cataclysm:

    OMG! WotLK wuz so much bettar! Bring back da hardz!

  11. #131
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
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    459

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    simply put...i dont like it. Hell i still dont like the whole 10 and 25 man versian of stuff. I think Blizz had it right with BC. Not to incredibly large, but you had the build up to a 25 man raid.
    "We are not tools of the goverment or anyone else.* Fighting was the only thing I was good at, but at least I fought for what I believed in."* -Gray Fox-

  12. #132

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I personally love this idea (and yes, I am in a 25m raid guild). When I first read this I was a little pissed until I finished the article. I think it's a good idea to have em on the same lock out since they will be dropping the same gear. I also love the idea of two smaller raid instances instead of one giant one. I know a lot of people have been and will continue to QQ over this saying that their precious 25m raids are going down the shitter but if you'd l2r you'll see they are still providing incentive to 25m raid. More loot drops per boss, more g, and more badges (meaning faster tier and vendor gear which will still drive your oh so precious gear score up higher than a 10m raiding guild). That being said, how does that make 25m obsolete? Esp when they said they are going to tune th raids to have the same amount of strain on the group whether you're in 10m or 25m. (meaning 10m won't be a walk in the park.. and if it is, than so will 25m)

  13. #133

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by ryyu
    as people can just kick you/leave your guild with ample replacements in a smaller format, Small pocket guilds of terrible players will rise and be laughed at.
    No, you can't. Because of GUILD LEVELING.

  14. #134

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Best news I've heard since the announcement of the release of Cataclysm.

    Strict 10 man Raiding shall prevail!

  15. #135

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Holyfield
    This will be the death of 25 man raids. The "motivation" they are including for doing the 25 man versions (more gold, a few more items) will not be enough.
    ^^

    Slowly but surely they are putting the nail in the coffin for any semblance of hardcore guilds in Cata.
    The hard mode races will now be like watching the WNBA.

  16. #136

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironza
    Love the idiots who are preaching the end of WoW and 25 man raiding already.

    25 Man raiding will still:

    Bring more loot overall
    More Gold
    More badges
    More chance of wipes/fail
    More Accomplishment
    More Challenge

    The only difference is now, 10-man raiding is actually worth-while instead of just a filler for gear until the top-end level guilds can achieve better gear.

    Right now, no raider in their right mind would take a peice of gear from ICC10(i251) if they had a (i264) option available from 25 man instead which would obviously be better in comparison.

    Silly people are silly.

    Good change is good. It changes nothing apart from loot. And I'm pretty sure that Top-end Hardcore guilds like Paragon, For The Horde, Ensidia etc would be raiding for the accomplishment and World First still like they have always done.

    Quoting this for emphasis hoping there are some QQers out there who aren't in such a blind rage they can read this
    How much bone could a bonestorm storm if a bonestorm could BOOOOOOOOONESTOOOOOOOOOOOORM!!
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/character-bios/'almega'-nara-draconus/ - my RP character

  17. #137

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeina
    On the topic of 10 man/25 man difficulty.

    Have you ever run 10 mans w/o ever stepping foot in a 25 man to get gear? Like.. running Ulduar 10 with only having obtained Naxx10 and Heroism gear?

    There is a lot less room for error in 10 mans than there are in 25 mans and it's a lot harder to carry people through 10 mans.

    If you're running through ICC10 with a bunch of TogC25 gear, yea.. it's gonna be easy. If you're running through ICC10 with a bunch of ToC10 gear, it gets a little harder.

    Whatever, let the mediocre elitists rage and (not)quit the game. I'll just start ignoring their posts.
    I'm doing 10 man HCs on alts with just 10 man / 10 man HC / badge gear. Trust me, you can carry 1-2 bads all the way as long as it's not tanks or healers and the other dps can actually push the right buttons at the right time.

  18. #138

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tun
    Fucking retarded.

  19. #139

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Almega
    Quoting this for emphasis hoping there are some QQers out there who aren't in such a blind rage they can read this
    Add Guild Leveling and Path of Titans on that list.

  20. #140

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I like it, the system where 25man drops better loot than 10m has been flawed for a while now, as far as im concerned the majority of 25m raids, assuming you are grouped with smart people are much easier than 10m raids. 25m seem to have a larger margin of error as far as a player here or there dying or doing something wrong or getting disconnected(which is getting really annoying). 10m it really only takes one person to screw everything up, and yet 10m drops inferior loot.

    As far as lockouts, thats not really too bad considering they are essentially going to be the same encounter, 25m just drops a few more items, tho if they do break the raids up into smaller raids then there should still be plenty to do in a single lockout period.

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