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  1. #1401

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by madethisfor1post
    I'm still trying to figure out when putting together a 25man raid in a guild got tough.

    This will not kill established guilds...it will kill wannabe guilds who for some reason or another can't get 25 like-minded people together. So now they have a fall-back plan and get to do 10mans with little to no penalty short of less badges a week.

    LORDY LORDY PLEASE SAVE US FROM DEM EVIL BLIZZARDS THEYS TRYIN TO TAKE AWAY MY SUPERIORITY COMPLEX!
    Eh, I don't know about that. I play Alliance on a Horde-dominated server. People faction/server transfer all the time. Keeping a guild in raiding shape is tough. I don't want to pay for a bunch of transfers or ditch the friends I've played with for years. I know there are plenty of good servers/guilds, but this one is mine =P Getting 25 people together is certainly harder for some of us. Keeping them all online is too ='[

  2. #1402

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    thank god. scheduling ten mans in off time is a nightmare for 25 man guilds. and of course 25 doesnt divide up into ten mans very well either. i welcome not "having to" run ten every week.

  3. #1403

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    i read it and was kinda ticked at the idea of the raid locks, but then i read it a couple more times just closer and really liked the idea since there will be more than one "current" raid.
    If the Burning Legion is such a problem, why not just throw water on them? Then they'll just be a Legion
    Quote Originally Posted by Vongimi View Post
    What is wrong with having a character show up again? Some people are so dumb and will hate on anything blizzard does. Seriously, if you hate it so much that you cant see straight when they show a character a 2nd time, then you should just quit. Also, never read a book. Ever. You will be mad.

  4. #1404

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tang
    10 man version is much harder in 10 man gear than 25 man is in 25 man gear.
    No. Just no.

    You clearly haven't done anything past Saurfang.

    But I'll give it a shot at reasoning with you, just to see what happens.

    Same gear, same skill. Same encounter, say Sindragosa. Which one is harder? 10 men where you need to actually RUN on purpose into people to cause trouble? Or 25 men where you might freeze 10 people if you don't do exactly what you're supposed to?

  5. #1405

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ollakka
    They lose 10,000 elitists... gain 500,000 casuals.
    Well, actually the subscriptions constantly went up until WotLK was released - after the catering towards "casuals" (the average player plays 24 hours a week btw...) the game plateaued or is even losing subscriptions. Go figure, boy.

  6. #1406
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by iluwen_de
    This and they added a buff to the hardmodes -.-


    An entirely optional buff, at that. I still don't understand why people piss and moan about hardmodes "not being hard", yet they're running with a 10% buff. The hardmodes weren't designed to need the buff; Otherwise they would have balanced it as needing the 30% buff and no one would have killed H-Marrowgar yet. Turn off the buff and quit crying about hardmodes already.
    I'll not spend my days glancing over my shoulder for assassins. Let them look back for me. --Elbryan, the Nightbird.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ath/nightbird/

  7. #1407

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I'm just waiting until Blizzard drops raiding altogether and just reverts to 5-mans. It's just not fair that people who actually organize 25-man raids (which is apparently easy, despite being simultaneously impossible) get anything extra, even achievements, for that accomplishment. It should be reduced to a simple choice, like choosing a slide rule or a calculator.

    Hey everyone, I solved this algebra problem using a slide rule! Look at me I'm so cool!

    Oh wait, no one uses slide rules anymore? Just like no one will run 25-mans anymore, because there's absolutely no advantage to it?

    Darn

  8. #1408
    Herald of the Titans malletin's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ollakka
    They lose 10,000 elitists... gain 500,000 casuals.
    thats great right? i mean the loss of elitists?
    "any man shaving for a woman should relinquish ownership of his testicles aswell"

  9. #1409

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by tr0xxie
    Made me laugh, but also:

    "if this doesnt work they can just change it again" well, it will work.. but not for everyone, lets say if they lost 10.000 hardcore players over this, but then instead gained 11.000 players that dont really care at all, and just play for like 1-2hours/day, it would still be a win-win for them, as long they get more $$.

    True Story.
    Exactly like raiding accessibility in wotlk would bring more players to this game, oh wait thats right. Numbers show the exact same amount of subscribers as in tbc.

  10. #1410

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksmota
    Blizzard also claimed hard modes were tuned for the progression guilds. All but one of them turned out to be severely undertuned. I doubt they'll get any better at balancing come Cataclysm.
    Hardmode bosses might go unbeaten longer with less emblem farming and fewer ways to practice. I agree that Blizzard has a hard time tuning perfectly. At this point though, I think we should be discussing the good and bad in the design rather than the ways it could go wrong. Anything is bad with bad implementation...

  11. #1411

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by iluwen_de
    Well, actually the subscriptions constantly went up until WotLK was released - after the catering towards "casuals" (the average player plays 24 hours a week btw...) the game plateaued or is even losing subscriptions. Go figure, boy.
    WoW will die in Catalysm, kid.

    Oh wait new player record inc...

  12. #1412
    Blademaster Cruisette's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Am I the only person who finds this to be a terrible idea? Sharing the same lock out, loot and roughly hardness. They already put in hardmodes as an option for non-casual raiders. But, now they're pretty much combining everything they can.

    I would like to know why? Why do this?

    Cruisette - Enh Shaman : Rare Creature : Best Woona

  13. #1413

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ollakka
    WoW will die in Catalysm, kid.

    Oh wait new player record inc...
    Hey man, I can pass my opinion off as fact, too! :

  14. #1414

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    very smart changes

  15. #1415

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Me liek

  16. #1416

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This implementation will kill my guild (at the 25man level), but for the same reason my previous 25man guild died. Because there was too much variance in skill levels between the top 10 and the other 15. My last guild died because the top 10 weren't officers and left the guild for bigger and better. This one has 10 players who are carrying the guild, but in this case we're the ones running it.

  17. #1417
    Field Marshal Cyberzombie's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Personally, I'm amiable to these changes. I got really burnt out on raiding when we'd do 25m Tue/Fri/Sat, and 10m on Wed/Thur/Sun.

    I'll say one thing that bothers me the more I think about it is this supposed line between "hardcore" and "casuals"...how do you really define that? I raided 6 days a week and I wouldn't consider myself a "hardcore" player...just someone who was enjoying the current raiding content (did the same in vanilla and BC, come to think of it)...but I got really burned out only raiding for so long. I'd come home from work, grab a bite to eat, log on, and that'd be my evening 6 out of 7 days. Didn't even really get any chances to do dailies or level alts (pvp = no thanks).

    So if "hardcore" is raiding a lot, that may not be something to be proud of considering you can't have much of a life outside of that one task...

    But with the changes, someone like myself can only raid three days a week (ideally, I suppose) and not feel like I'm missing half of the raiding content (in doing 10s for example but not 25s), and if you're really wanting more than just go for the heroic version. How is this bad?
    This signature intentionally left blank.

  18. #1418

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ollakka
    WoW will die in Catalysm, kid.

    Oh wait new player record inc...
    Like the one after the WotLK release? Oh, wait...there wasn´t a new record SINCE TBC...

  19. #1419

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by iluwen_de
    Like the one after the WotLK release? Oh, wait...there wasn´t a new record SINCE TBC...
    ;D

    Ignore the fanboy. Blizzard can do no wrong in his eyes.

  20. #1420
    Field Marshal Cyberzombie's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Bingolotta
    I'm not saying I do not like the change (I do), but it seems to me they might aswell remove 25mans completely if this goes through - which it will.
    At this point it seems like they see the 25m version as solutions to larger guilds, allowing them to give more of their members the ability raid rather than having to set up multiple 10m at the same time (which is annoying to do given everybody wants to bitch about being left out, but no one wants to step in and lead the second or even third raid...what is a raid leader supposed to do, be in two/three raids at the same time?).

    But they don't want 25m raids to seem mandatory in order to experience all of the content they have (or another way to think about it, have 10m be mandatory in order for larger guilds to have the gear to beat the 25m bosses).

    And really, it makes sense to me.
    This signature intentionally left blank.

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