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  1. #141

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Good change overall.
    I like it.

  2. #142
    The Patient Sabbie's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I don't exactly understand the point of this. This pretty much defeats the purpose of a 25 man guild....? yes,no? I guess you get more badges with a 25 man. Blizzard is usually pretty good to when they make huge changes like this, but personally I don't like this. I like how the 10 and 25 man's are now, although I prefer the Ulduar style of hardmodes, instead of turn on a switch to make it heroic. Fights like Vezax, you couldn't use any of the green puddles to activate hardmode.

    *Shrug* There is my banter, this is making me like cata less.

  3. #143

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Like it how they ask for any questions rather then for my opinion..

    Fuck off with symplifying the game even more.. blizzard is full off shit anyways.

    They put 12+ on the box yet make the boss fights so hard that no 12 year old could ever grasp it.. Then now they remove lock outs.... I"m already bored after friday when i raided everything...

    So fuck off with that idea drooling retards
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

    ^ A new and orginal change.. OH WAIT

    Inbefore QQ about my avatar if you want removed, but remember, baby seals die in the process off it's removal!!

  4. #144
    Fluffy Kitten Lokann's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Predicting sea of "Remember WotLK? Those were the days, 25 man raids actually had better loot and were harder" posts about a year from now.



  5. #145

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I still dont understand why people think that the difficulty of 10 mans in cataclysm will be the same as now. It will be as hard as 25 man.

  6. #146
    Brewmaster videotape's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    In response to "25-man raids are pointless now", etc:

    It is clearly stated that people who are capable of mustering the players for 25s will be rewarded by faster loot acquisition. One can only assume (using basic reasoning and comprehension skills) that this means more loot per player per boss. In other words, a boss on 10 will probably still drop 2 purps. The same boss on 25 will probably drop 6 purps.

    This is in contrast to the current setup whereby 25s drop 3 purps of higher quality. The current 25-man purp-to-player ratio is less than that of 10-man raids, per boss kill.

    I think this is a fantastic idea. I am uncertain about my feelings toward gated encounters, but I am all for unifying 10 and 25 locks. Here's hoping that all of the people QQing over these changes can find it in their hearts to ragequit ASAP.

  7. #147
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Great change. And actually LESS balancing problems compared to now because all have access to the same gear. No more freeloot 10mans because of "OP" 25man gear.

    Now I just have to hope that my studies allow me to raid when cataclysm comes :S

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  8. #148

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Great changes.

    1) No longer have to farm the same instance twice/four times (ToC anyone). More like TBC raiding then anything else, hopefully Blizz will pull through on difficulty levels beimng adjusted.

    2) Item inflation byebye. Now they needed 232-245-258 for one instance (251-264-277 for ICC). Now, we will only see two levels of items. Problem was that gear from the last tier was being replaced way fast, with limited badges, and relatively little difference in gear in the new set-up we won't face silly stuff such as chill of the Throne/Sunwell Radiance.

    3) People can play the format they like.

    4) Drops the silly format of hardcore guilds running 10mans first to get the ropes of a fight etc (and gear up from it aswelll I reckon), before tackling the 25man version.

    I can see how people are afraid of 10mans giving the same gear, but I think the real challenge will remain in 25mans anyway, but now 25man guilds won;t overgear 10man content (making server firsts 10man cooler), and a 10man player can more easily switch to a 25man guild (making recruiting easier).

    I am stoked, shame that other people have to worry about their epeen (higher ilevel zomg for 25man raiders!!!!!) being taken away.


  9. #149
    High Overlord Jadhak's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    How can anyone say that 25 man raiding is going down the drain untill you know what the reward factor will be?

    Say 25 man drops 3 times the loot of a 10 man, then its definately better for a 25 man guild to do the 25 man than the 10 man.

    Before anyone needlessly qq's you should wait for more information.

  10. #150
    The Patient Sabbie's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Veinlash
    Meanwhile, in Cataclysm:

    OMG! WotLK wuz so much bettar! Bring back da hardz!
    lol,
    bc = I miss vanilla ; ;
    Wotlk = I miss BC ;;
    Cata = I miss wotlk ;;

  11. #151
    Herald of the Titans Snes's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I honestly can't wait for the multitude of whiners to quit WoW because of this, leaves more loot for those of us that don't have knee-jerk reaction bitching integrated in our thought processes. Let me address some of the QQ:
    "This will kill hardcore guilds"
    -Obviously you think hardcore is normal modes. Hardcore guilds will still be doing hard modes.
    "They are making the game more casual"
    -By making top tier badges take more time to obtain? By making the best loot available only to those guilds that can do the hard versions? By increasing the quantity of loot for guilds that take the time to form a 25 man? Okay.
    "25 man guilds will die"
    -Not SMART 25 man guilds that don't stand in fire. Read the news again, the amount of drops (including more badges and gold) per boss will be scaled appropriately for 25 man version. You get top tier badges faster by doing the bigger raids. You will get more drops. This is incentive for non-lazy guilds that have members with half a brain.

    Anyways, can't wait for the kiddies to emo-quit WoW over this, more breathing space for the rest of us.

  12. #152

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    this is really good news. seems like a return to TBC's raiding but more refined. now you can't just run both player versions and gear up instantly. it doesn't necessarily kill 25 mans though because more badges + more items = faster gearing up. I suspect the amount of 25 raids done will diminish severely, though.

    while great news, this isn't my biggest concern with raiding. my biggest concern is badges. they're great in theory, but executed so poorly. I came back to WoW when the LK encounter was about to be released, leveled to 80, ran heroics and all that. thing is there was only 3 raids to even run. onyxia, ToC (easily the WORST RAID EVER) and ICC. all the content before like Naxx, Ulduar and Sarth/Maly simply don't matter anymore because the items from badges give far superior loot. sad part is Ulduar is one of the best looking raids that I've seen. this gaping flaw needs to be fixed with Cataclysm. make badges give the lowest ilevel or only a handful of higher ilevel epics. to play devil's advocate, every guild being focused on ICC opens up more opportunities to players but where is the epic feeling of gearing up? where is the epic feeling of progressing through every instance? obviously I understand the badge loot was a move towards more casual players but damnit I wanted to run Uld D:

  13. #153

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambear
    Great changes.

    1) No longer have to farm the same instance twice/four times (ToC anyone). More like TBC raiding then anything else, hopefully Blizz will pull through on difficulty levels beimng adjusted.

    2) Item inflation byebye. Now they needed 232-245-258 for one instance (251-264-277 for ICC). Now, we will only see two levels of items. Problem was that gear from the last tier was being replaced way fast, with limited badges, and relatively little difference in gear in the new set-up we won't face silly stuff such as chill of the Throne/Sunwell Radiance.

    3) People can play the format they like.

    4) Drops the silly format of hardcore guilds running 10mans first to get the ropes of a fight etc (and gear up from it aswelll I reckon), before tackling the 25man version.

    I can see how people are afraid of 10mans giving the same gear, but I think the real challenge will remain in 25mans anyway, but now 25man guilds won;t overgear 10man content (making server firsts 10man cooler), and a 10man player can more easily switch to a 25man guild (making recruiting easier).

    I am stoked, shame that other people have to worry about their epeen (higher ilevel zomg for 25man raiders!!!!!) being taken away.

    /agree
    Quote Originally Posted by admielke
    I'm guessing the idea quoted made sense but the original post didn't?

  14. #154

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    fuck yes! rise of the 10man guild!

  15. #155
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Only bad part about any of these changes is the amount of work Blizzard will have to do to keep 10/25 raids and classes balanced now...
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  16. #156

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror
    Add Guild Leveling and Path of Titans on that list.
    You cant seriously think that Blizz would make 2 of their new additions to the game really so inaccessible that only top guilds achieve it?
    Everyone and their mother will have it maxed at the end of the first tier. Thats the new philosophy of WoW.

  17. #157
    Brewmaster videotape's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by petsoul
    So fuck off with that idea drooling retards
    As a game developer I am intrigued by your concise insight into this matter. Please contact me privately to discuss your design theories in greater detail.

  18. #158

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    i relly like this, i raid lead a 25man guild atm, and well i fell i put so mutch effort into it, just have to gather 10 players will be so nice, but well im an achivement junkie, so if thay keep 25man achivemenst ill bite in the appel and keep on 25maning

  19. #159

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    First off:
    We need to know exactly how much more loot 25 man will drop. Because.. OF COURSE 25 man HAS TO DROP MORE.. there are 25 people to split the loot with. So.. if 10 man drops 2 pieces and 25 man drops 5 pieces.. thats no advantage.. 25/5 is the same as 10/2

    So for there to be any advantage at all in running 25 mans bosses will have to drop AT LEAST 6 pieces of gear and even then it will only be a small advantage.

    So will it be 1 pieces of loot on 10 man, 4 on 25 man>? (Probably not because 1 pieces on 10 man is stupid) or will it be 2 pieces on 10 man and 6 or 7 on 25 man> (Seems like WAY too much loot for 25 man) Or will it be 2 pieces on 10 and 4 or 5 on 25 man (making 25 man raids be pointless)?

    None of those options are good.

    So basically to sum up this news:
    All players who raid only 10 mans, or have always wanted to just play with 9 other friends are very very excited today because they can now get the best loot in the game with out having to work to fill a raid.

    All players who do 25 man raids feel slightly betrayed.. aren't really sure what to think of this. They either think "well at least I wont have to raid twice a week" but at the same time think "well shoot.. whats the point of putting up with 24 people when I can just get 9 friends and end up with the same stuff"?

    So.. for me.. Im not ready to jump to any conclusions.. my gut reaction is that this is really really stupid on the part of Blizzard.. after all there is a reason that EVERY TIME it has been brought up in the past.. they have said somthing along these lines "We recognize that there is a higher degree if dificulty in brining 25 players together and being coordinated" and have flatly said "NO" when asked why 10 mans didnt have access to legendaries.

    OHHHHHHHHHHH.. just thought of a great question.. WILL 10 MANS HAVE ACCESS TO LEGNEDARIES NOW? If thats the case there is no way in hell you can tell me 25 mans have an advantage.. because your chances of ever landing a legendary go WAY up with only 10 people.


    Wow.. wierd wierd day.. this may in fact (depending on how it plays out of course) lead to me not raiding any more. (after 5 1/2 years)

    Time to seriously think about finding a new game... oh.. SC2 is soon


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Llane&cn=Sn%C3%B8w

  20. #160

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamslam
    Only bad part about any of these changes is the amount of work Blizzard will have to do to keep 10/25 raids and classes balanced now...
    Entering Guild Leveling.

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