Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[crayons]

*sucks in air*

Woah - same item levels for 10 and 25, just more items to loot from bosses in 25.

*Watches the horizon grow dark with the multitudes of the WoW community carrying pitchforks*

*Braces for stampede* :-X

if they keep it the same, 10m bosses have 2 drops, 25m has 3 drops, 25m guilds will run 10's up until the gating is done then go for endboss. you would get double the loot if you did it this way. 2x3=6 drops from 1 boss a week versus 3x1=3 drops a week.

bad change is bad.

this is coming from someone who likes 10m better than 25m

[Jerazznor]

Thats complete Bulls*** this is one of the reasons which i hate about the way wow is going, everyone can get loot, I've been a raider since vanila, whats the point of 25man normal now then? 10man normal will drop the same items? why go 25man when theres less chance of getting loot and a higher chance to fail / wipe?

How is there less of a chance to get loot if they drop the same items? Obviously the will just drop 2-3 times as much loot in 25 man, plus the extra badges and monies.

Think about it this way, 25 mans will stay the same as they are now while 10 mans will get less gold, less badges, and less of a chance to get loot. If both 25 man and 10 man drop the same loot, they must have the same loot table which obviously would be scaled for 25 man or you would have huge loot tables for the 10 man. This means that 10 mans are gonna have a bunch of drops with very very low drop rates to account for the bigger loot table.

If you have 25 people to raid, it is STILL going to be the best route, just like it is today.

[zaphon]

More badges/gold/loot.

If the boss drops say 3 times the badges and loot, you've actually got better chances of winning something.

So to balance this, today a 10 man drops 2 pieces of loot (so 20% of the party make up), so a 25 man would have to drop 5 pieces of loot and 5 emblems. Otherwise, yeah, 25 man raiding is DEAD.

[Lokann]

hmmmm...... why can't they just do; More loot on 25 man but same item level?

Like:

25 man boss - 5 drops 3 emblem
10 man boss - 2 drops 1 emblem

That's what they're doing...

[Axelhander]

It's about freaking time Blizzard realized more people doesn't automagically mean better rewards.

I agree that the larger groups should see a larger quantity, though.

To everyone upset with this change: I laugh at your tears. Laugh.

My laughter. It grows louder.

Thats complete Bulls*** this is one of the reasons which i hate about the way wow is going, everyone can get loot, I've been a raider since vanila, whats the point of 25man normal now then? 10man normal will drop the same items? why go 25man when theres less chance of getting loot and a higher chance to fail / wipe?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahaha!!! ;D :P

[madrok]

hm, will blizzard rename the expansion from catalysm to casualysm? im pretty happy that i already quitted the game. i would probably nerdrage if i would really care about
(god, what a shitty english :S)

[romeolock]

Making 25 man raiding pointless one step at a time?

this is it exactly only the super hardcore players will raid 25 man. And only for more badges/more loot. To make 25 man viable it has to be an extreme for instance instead of where maybe 10 man has 2 and 25 man has maybe 4-5. It must be like 2 to at least 5-8 pieces of gear otherwise no point. Lets take for instance me(lock) gets into 10 man group i down first boss and 2 pcs drop and 1 badge. Me being only lock (maybe 1 of few caster dps say 2-3) my odds of getting the lets say one piece of caster gear looks pretty good. Lets assume there are 3 bosses 3 ranged dps all bosses drop 1 caster piece we all get one loot i walk away +1. But now lets say we do 25 man and instead of 3 caster dps there are now 11 and ofc 3 cloth healers. Now each boss drops lets say 4 for instance pieces of gear and assume 2 are caster dps. Over 3 bosses that makes 6 items and i roll against 11 ppl my chances of caster gear are cut in half. To do 25 man you would most likely have to guarantee a drop for everyone which in turn means tons and tons of gear drops in 25 man. Which also means bigger loot tables so the idea of getting that one item you really want is extremly hard. I see lots of problems with this system. LOTS

[Vasti]

I welcome this change.....now I dont have to do the same bosses twice (for some ppl 4 times in a week for ToC)

Just hope the raids wont be too long..... or that they also change how ppl get saved (as in on a per boss basis, rather then per isntance ID)

[Axelhander]

hmmmm...... why can't they just do; More loot on 25 man but same item level?

Like:

25 man boss - 5 drops 3 emblem
10 man boss - 2 drops 1 emblem

That's both a) reasonable and b) what Blizz is doing.

[Evyan]

I absolutely hate it

what's the use of 25 mans?

What's the use of a shaman :/

[Saviana]

The first of the refinements being made is that we're combining all raid sizes and difficulties into a single lockout. Unlike today, 10- and 25-player modes of a single raid will share the same lockout. You can defeat each raid boss once per week per character. In other words, if you wanted to do both a 10- and 25-person raid in a single week, you’d need to do so on two different characters. Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel. Obviously the raid lockout change doesn't apply in pure Icecrown terms though, as this change goes hand-in-hand with a few other changes to raid progression in Cataclysm.

We're designing and balancing raids so that the difficulty between 10- and 25-player versions of each difficulty will be as close as possible to each other as we can achieve. That closeness in difficulty also means that we'll have bosses dropping the same items in 10- and 25-player raids of each difficulty. They'll have the same name and same stats; they are in fact the exact same items.

This will kill WoW for sure.
People will get bored because they can't raid and quit the game.

GG blizz.

[dennisd]

Meh, I don't really like these changes.. it just feels.. wrong

[alt]

Nice in theory, but I think it will be a complete balancing nightmare. For example, there's no way in hell something like the Lich King's defile will be as difficult in 10-man compared to 25-man. Avoiding 24 people in a constrained area is much harder than avoiding 9 people.

[DiscoTabasco]

I welcome change...i feel sorry for all these nerd ragin sky is fallin people.

[Rellekk]

We would like to give everyone a preview of what the final boss encounter of cataclysm will be like. We think finding 10/25 people to tank, heal and dps is just too much hassle for players. The final Deathwing encounter will require players to just zone into the instance and right-click on a button that will kill Deathwing and supply all loot available, no fighting or strategy required!

Stay tuned for more ways in which we make this game less challenging for you!

[Metian]

This news is making me lol.. but those comments are making me roflmao..

Apparently people can't read these days, they just want to comment as fast as possible.

[Shisou]

I welcome this change.....now I dont have to do the same bosses twice (for some ppl 4 times in a week for ToC)

Completely agree. There was nothing worse than raiding ToC 4 times a week on different difficulties.

[Epsi]

Pretty sad to condemn Hardcore guilds. I hope this is not definite.

Imo, this did not sound like a preview ... I'd say it's pretty mich definite.

And since I hate to depand on a whole bunch of people when it comes to my free time this change is great.

[Hobnob]

Love the idiots who are preaching the end of WoW and 25 man raiding already.

25 Man raiding will still:

Bring more loot overall
More Gold
More badges
More chance of wipes/fail
More Accomplishment
More Challenge

The only difference is now, 10-man raiding is actually worth-while instead of just a filler for gear until the top-end level guilds can achieve better gear.

Right now, no raider in their right mind would take a peice of gear from ICC10(i251) if they had a (i264) option available from 25 man instead which would obviously be better in comparison.

Silly people are silly.

Good change is good. It changes nothing apart from loot. And I'm pretty sure that Top-end Hardcore guilds like Paragon, For The Horde, Ensidia etc would be raiding for the accomplishment and World First still like they have always done.

[Jeina]

So.. first they make it easier to get gear.. and people complain.

Now, it seems like it'll take longer to get gear.. and people complain.

Let's say...

A 10 man dropped 2 pieces of gear per boss and 2 emblems (like now).

and.

A 25 man dropped 5 pieces of loot and 5 emblems.

You can only do one a week. Are you really give up on 25 mans? Especially if there is 4 raids with 4-6 bosses apeice in them?

And to the people complaining about clearing it in 1-2 nights.. did you miss the part about there being more raids in this expansion? Or did you just read one thing that pissed you off and then proceeded to nerdrage about it for 15 minutes?

How about everyone waits until all the details are hammered out before you go all emo /wrists on yourself.

I love the internet, but it has certainly given a horrible rise to the amount of idiocy in the world.