Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Holyfield]

hmmmm...... why can't they just do; More loot on 25 man but same item level?

Like:

25 man boss - 5 drops 3 emblem
10 man boss - 2 drops 1 emblem

That's literally the exact same amount of loot per boss/per person. The only thing your getting in your scenario is more gold and emblems. Not sure that's enough motivation to do 25 mans.

To truly be "more", it would have to be 6 loot per boss.

[Jadhak]

Seems like nerdragers are illiterate and do not posses any numeracy skills either.

25 Man raid will be more EFFICIENT (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/efficient) in terms of getting loot. So if you can get 25 people, it will be BETTER (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/better) to do 25 mans than 10 mans.

So chill out with the complaints (aka QQ in nerdragespeak) and use your BRAINS (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/brain)

[MrKnubbles]

Yay! I was waiting for this change!

I was sick of doing 25 mans for better gear because I find 10 mans much more fun, 25s allow too much slack.

[videotape]

Forums: STFU L2 GAME DESIGN

I'd say that quote represents maybe 5% of the forums. I'm also willing to wager a substantial amount of money that not a single person among that 5% is actually a game designer worth their weight in salt.

[boomboomba]

No just stupid, the act of managing 30-35 ppl compared to running raids with 9 friends should be rewarded, otherwise there is not point in running 25 mans. But logic seems to be too hard to grasp.

It will be rewarded.
Read the Blue post again.

[Impurath]

That's it. I'm not going to play Cataclysm if this goes to live: 10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.

[tjkiler]

Wtf gayest change eva

[Larinal]

I hate you all people who say this is a good change, it's all your fault, I fucking hate you.

[JackBauerLOL]

Best news I've heard since the announcement of the release of Cataclysm.

Strict 10 man Raiding shall prevail!

Yeah screw people who prefer the face passed epic feel of 25 man raids in favour of the slow, watered down 10man guilds@@@@@@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly the only people here being selfish jerks are 10man guilds. With 10/25 lockouts you get your 10man raids to enjoy and 25man raids enjoyed by 25man guilds. This is just you guys being little selfish kids butthurt because you can have 264 level items like those mean old 25 man raiders.

Seriously, get a life you scum.

[Inari]

They will make unique titles for 25 mans, then wow will be magically saved again. Everyone wants them titles!

[Tauror]

my point was more aimed at middle of the road raiders like myself, why be in that 25 man guild that makes you hate life because its the only way to get the 25 man loot to do the next Teir of raiding or progress when you can now just make a smaller, nicer guild to develop, abeit at a slower rate than the 25 man "Sword champions of the sword" or w/e you just left, It wont kill "hardcore" 25 guilds like Paragon etc, but I can see alot of the less... god I hate these words "casual" raiders Sloging there guts in the big wanna be hardcore guilds when they just wanna play with friends.

As you said mind, no big time guild will do 10s for current content. Apart from your fine point about PotT and guild talents, theres also the fact you can get away with alot more slack/DCs/Fail/Bad RNG, stack more Battle reses, have a larger mix of classes and buffs etc in a 25 man raid than a much smaller 10 man, if anything the 10s might punish mistakes alot worse as long as they bump up the difficulty from its current faceroll state.

Still think its a good change and not the world ender alot of people seem to think it is

Sure, but both Guild Leveling and Path of Titans don't work on a ladder system. It's basically leveling, everyone has the shot to get to the top. The best ones will get there first.

Item level as "merit" reward is gone, when we combine all three changes. Cataclysm will be about guild pride, not player pride.

[halby]

Lfm 10 man guild, fuck 25.

[Korv]

Gated content: pathetic.
Same lockout: don't care really.
Claiming that 10 man can be same difficulty as 25 man: pathetic. thaddius can be 4 manned on 10 man in blues but with the same gear would be a wipe to enrage on 25 man with less than 20.

because Thaddius is Cataclysm o_O

[Xinhkero]

My my, look at all the QQ : Cataclysm is not even here and the whiners are breaking out the pitchforks and torches.

Personally me and my guild are liking this idea. Usually we haunt the 25 man raids and will still be having 25 man wipe-fests in Cataclysm Heroics. However as a guild of working adults, sometimes Real Life gets in the way. We have had way too many nights where our 25 man teams (we have enough players and alts to have a couple of raid teams) are sidelined because some players have to work late, are stuck on the local motorway/autobahn/train, have a sick kid, etc. Come Cataclysm, we will not be wasting time twiddling our thumbs, we can just run a ten man team and get the same gear/badges if only not as much of it. Plus having multiple raid instances to choose from will help us.

We are generally hard core when it comes to raiding (we cut our raiding teeth during Vanilla on ZG, AQ20, MC and Onyxia), however we also understand that shit happens and we have to adjust. This change makes that adjustment much easier to do.

Now time to sit back and watch the QQ Express roll on.

/popcorn

[Slaman]

What the hell am I going to do for the rest of the week after 25 mans now.

[one_entity]

LOVE the 'difficulty' part of the news. I always saw 10 and 25 man raids als alternatives to each other,none should be superior or inferior.

Absolutely HATE the thing about 10man and 25man sharing the same lockout.
Right now we're doing 10man in the guild and 25man with a raid alliance. Most of our 10man guys are in the 25man raid, but not all of them. Also we're more successfull in the 10man (couple sucky people in the 25man unfortunately). Now we will have to decide whether to leave the 25man raid alliance and do 10man exclusively, create two or more 10man raids (possibly mix each week) in the raid alliance and switch to doing multiple 10mans instead of one 25man (and possible switch back and forth depending on the amount of people able to raid this week). etc. Maybe some guys in our guild prefer the 25man, others prefer the 10man so we'll split.

This fucking sucks, pretty sure it'll ruin our guild....

[esoh]

To me this change absolutely blows.

I'm not all fussed about the difficulty being easier/harder either as I'm sure they'll balance this appropriately, but I far prefer the environment in our 10-man group over that of our 25's.

Being in a 25-man focused guild our guild is going to be obviously taking that route and continue in such, thus eliminating our 10-man groups. I far prefer the environment in our 10-man group over that of our 25's for several reasons:
- I get along with all the people in my 10man, whereas I don't my 25's.
- The skill level is all very high in our 10man, and again differs in our 25's where we have to carry people.
- Raiding 10man doesn't feel like a chore as I actually look forward to it, whereas 25man it does.

Due to the above factors, the attitude towards raiding is increased and is far more enjoyable for myself and the rest of the group.

Obviously, it could be said to go find a 10-man guild and be done with it, but I'm happy in my current guild and I don't want a different one.

Pretty much this change will kill 10-man raiding in our guild and that is what I enjoy the most, so for me and I'm sure many others in this situation, the change is horrible.

[rolecks]

I like the changes more or less. Having the same gear drop in both 10/25 will help to get people geared up fast, but I would've liked to see maybe a higher level weapon drop from the last boss on 25 like we have now with KT,LK. At least give some incentive before heroic modes to stick with clearing 25man.

[Snes]

That's it. I'm not going to play Cataclysm if this goes to live: 10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.

One less intolerant person to deal with.

[rofltroll]

What the hell am I going to do for the rest of the week after 25 mans now.

Meet a girl?