Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Mosberg]

I raid both 10 and 25 man on 2 toons, sometimes a 3rd 10man, weekly and as nice as it will be to drop a few nights I still dont quite know how I feel about this. As far as saying 25man are "harder" then 10 mans, I dont quite agree with that either. You can have a handful of dps and a few healers and maybe even a tank die in a 25 man, if you lose more than 1 or 2 people in a 10 man, you will generally wipe (unless its in like the last 5% or so) Yea 25 mans are harder in spacing people out and range check, but thats why we have range checkers. And lets be real honest, is raiding anywhere near hard regardless of 10 or 25man? This is also gonna hurt things like VoA. Soon they might as well say "You've done a 25man raid of some sort this week, you cant raid anything else". But we will shall see how things pan out, maybe it will be worth it or maybe I will just have to scrap my 25mans as they are more of a headache (more people = more asshats)

[Babyrobot]

For people saying what am I gonna do the rest of the week- here is how it will go.

Guild Leader- We're focusing on 25 man Firelands this week and on Friday we will be doing 3 10 man Grim Batol's.

Next week- 25 man Grim Batol this week and 10 man Firelands on Friday/After main raid etc.

(Assuming Firelands and Grim Batol are part of the same progression Teir)

[sleekit]

mixed feelings about this

based on personal experiance of the current system:

i liked 10 man a lot (as a member of a 25 man raiding guild), it was a bit more laid back and social (lots of good laughs) and a good practice area for learning hands on with mechanics.

that said our RL did conive to take his "dream team" to 10s as much as possible every reset which put many noses out of joint..

i dunno guess it makes some kind of sense but personally i will miss the having the option of a more social and less serious 10 man reset existing parallel to the more serious 25 man one.

can't help feeling that in spite if how good an idea it might be i've still lost an option i used to enjoy greatly from the "what do i do ?" menu.

[Asmin]

25 = pointless G_G casualcraft

[wabun]

[blizzquote="Nethaera;http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/24401856405/cataclysm-raid-progression-refinements/]Our hope is that players will be able to associate bosses with their loot tables and even associate specific artwork with specific item names to a far greater extent than today.[/blizzquote"]

bringing back something of the good old days here, thx blizz i love you for that.

finally i can say things like "i was slain by Ashkandi" again ^^

[Xiphan]

I hate you all people who say this is a good change, it's all your fault, I fucking hate you.

I'm surprised by the amount of people that seem to have played Cataclysm already and are rather knowledgeable regarding the new 10man difficulty!

Gonna have to wait and see how this turns out I guess, but Blizzard have probably learned a lot from the past couple expansions. This seems like a good way of merging tbc with wotlk raid styles.

[Daxmort]

To this?

I just have to say: fuck yes.

About time they did this. Thank you, Blizzard. Thank you.

[DeathBoxz]

I honestly fail to see any reason behind this :/ driving away the hardcore is just gunna make this game dull and boring while at the same time giving people the chance to turn on heroic mode is pretty suckish :S....

i wish a raid like ulduar could be brought back as that raid was pretty much the best raid in the game .fullstop.

There idea isto string out the raid for aslong as possible. can be acheived like this .... ulduar final encounter was beaten months after realease ..

[JackBauerLOL]

One less intolerant person to deal with.

Yes that's right.

Those selfish 25man raiders! I can't believe they actually want an advantage to raiding 25mans!

Those 10 man raiders, totally not selfish at all and just nice guys. They just want to see all the content and get the best purples in easy, slow, watered down raids!



Seriously, the irony and arrogance of 10man raiders is blinding.

[kabshiel]

I expect that the more organized and hardcore guilds will still do 25-mans, just because it's the more efficient way to collect loot. Smaller guilds and PUGs will likely stick with 10-mans, because they'll be easier to organize. I really don't see a downside to this announcement.

[foxHeart]

•10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout. (What the Hell?? Seriously? How is this beneficial at all?)
•10-Man and 25-Man raids difficulty will be as close as possible to each other. (Don't care.)
•10-Man and 25-Man raids will drop the exact same loot, but 25-man will drop a higher quantity of items. (MOAR GOLD!? Since that's totally the reason people raid, amirite? Other then that, meh. There's still heroic modes for more appropriate loot.)
•Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel. (Prefer Ulduar's organic "hard mode switches", but this is tard-proof.)
•For the first few raid tiers, our plan is to provide multiple smaller raids. Instead of one raid with eleven bosses, you might have a five-boss raid as well as a six-boss raid. (Don't care.)

[pip989]

wtf?! :S how is this good?!

[Tauror]

you keep saying this....WHO CARES?

You (and everyone) will care, considering that it will be the main factor of Cataclysm. Especially when there ARE rewards related to Guild Leveling.

[Frozenbeef]

the most interresting quote in boubs post relating to my play style was

Cataclysm

[emni]

What the hell am I going to do for the rest of the week after 25 mans now.

I was refraining from posting, but your comment just made me realize one thing. Skilled people with limited amount of play-time might finally be able to be on par with the stereotypical "basement-dwellers" who have the time to play 24/7. This is something that was accomplished in PvP long time ago and PvE is finally catching up.

I'm looking forward to Cata more and more.

[Ephel]

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

To all the 25s will die people: With more loot they probably mean that a 10 player boss will drop 2 items, and a 25 player boss 6 or something along those lines, it'll be faster to gear up in 25s then 10s, but it'll be easier to get 10s together, brilliant in my opinion.

The only thing that I'm a bit worried about is if they will deliver more content for us then before, because otherwise it might lead to only playing the game twice a week, because theres nothing else to do.

[Imbashiethz]

The thing I hate is that the items from 10 man will have the same look & name as the item that drops in 25man. The thing I love is that since you only kill the boss once a week it will have a more epic feeling and will be more fun, also there will be more raids so who cares that you can't do 10man AND 25man of the same instance? Nice change!

[Nuronv]

Very pleased about these changes.

People raiding both 10 and 25 man version made a mockery of the system from the start

[shade3891]

Dungeon Difficulty and Rewards

* 10 and 25-player (Normal difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop the exact same items as each other.
* 10 and 25-player (Heroic difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop more powerful versions of the normal-difficulty items.

I am screaming for a long time that they need to do this change! I never understood their reason for the current system, I am glad they change it !!

[Siorfin]

It's not necessarily a bad thing, I agree that doing the same bosses over and over on 10/25 can be pretty boring, but I also think a lot of that was the gating system which they want to keep? Northrend beasts, Lord Marrowgar were immensely boring by the time Anub arak or Putricide came out, and imo that was more the gating system than the 10/25 divide.

Talking about balancing 10man and 25 man difficulty is alot easier than actually doing it, maybe the additions to class tools will help because currently it's impossible. A fight like Blood Princes is alot "harder" use the term loosely on 10 man HC than 25 man also, as was Sarth 3d, based on certain mechanics and the fact 1 person messing up is more likely to wipe you here. On Sindragosa 25, 10 man heroic is lol, 25 man is much harder getting everyone to coordinate.

I'll reserve judgement on the 10/25 man balancing until we see it, but the idea of gating unless normal mode bosses are SIGNIFICANTLY harder than in Wotlk, or you can access heroic from the start, are heroic modes are as original as in Ulduar, is just going to bore everyone to death like ToC and to some extent the first 6 bosses of ICC normal.


Something else to think about, I really enjoyed doing both Ulduar 25 and Ulduar 10 each week, sure Ulduar 10 tailed off more quickly but there was still good entertainment value in doing both.