Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Ylera]

Thinking about it more though, they need to increase the amount of loot dropped in 25 man by a *lot*, otherwise it'll just be more profitable to run 2 or 3 10s mans instead of 1 25.

[krabork]

When this goes live, why would I ever run a 25 man again? I'm not against the change, and I think it's not worth speculating that 10's are getting harder or 25's are getting easier. 25's have inherent complexity just from having to manage more people. Does that mean DPS requirements will be less or equal to 10's (equal to account for a better spread or raid buffs/debuffs)? Obviously the 25's will have more loot, this has always been the case. Do they mean to say that there will be more loots per person in a 25? For example, ICC10 has 2 loots for 10 people. ICC25 has 3 loots for 25 people. So, bringing them to the same ilvl, means that ICC25 will have to have (2/10)= 0.2 * 25 = 5 loots per boss at least. Or maybe more? 6 loots? Perhaps more badges per boss?

I'm sure there are 100 ways to spin it, but unless one or several of the above ideas takes place, I'll never run a 25 again.

[troxan]

hmmmm...... why can't they just do; More loot on 25 man but same item level?

Like:

25 man boss - 5 drops 3(or 4) emblem
10 man boss - 2 drops 1(or 2) emblem

Just hope they make it like this then. No more, no less.
So they dont make it like:

25 man boss - 4-5 drops 3 emblem
10 man boss - 3 drops 2 emblem ... cause that would suck.

[zalz]

Right now 10-mans are nearly pointless except for pugging or stomping over for some cheap gear that nobody really wants, except the 7 week saved time means you gotta get what you can.

This change is going to largely make 25-man raiding obsolete, it hardly changes much.

Personally i prefer 10-man raiding so im happy. I suppose some really like 25-man so for them it sucks. The biggest part of the playerbase however becomes crippled by the very thought of change and will hate it for the simple fact that the game doesn't stay the exact same way.

Playerbase wise it could go either way. WoW could keep growing like it always has, or maybe the grow will start to stagnate a bit more considering alot of guilds might swap to 10-man and scrap their guild roster, and losing a guild can be a reason to stop playing for alot of people.

[Fonzey]

Holy Crap, saw these changes get posted up - went AFK for a quick wank, and came back to find 400 replies ;D

Good changes for me, I'm raid leading a 10man strict guild so nothing about this post can possibly be bad. We've got a good (imo) world rank in Strict 10man raiding which currently means absolute squat to many people. I can't argue with that because arguing what's hardest out of 10man strict or 25man raiding is like arguing what hurts more, giving birth or getting kicked in the crackers. No side can honestly see, or appreciate the other if you've got access to do both.

These changes will give us the opportunity to compete, and that's all I can wish for.

The cynic in me can't help thinking that 25man raiding will be dead in a month though - I've done 40man/25man in the past, the admin required is insane - as is the stress involved in keeping 25/40 people socially stable, whilst still performing and killing a boss. I can't see many people wanting to stick at that for the sake of prestige.

[Shaman89]

I know what blizzard can do.

They can just all bosses lootpinjata and then all causual will really feel cool and special. ohh wait they have are all ready that.
mayby then just remove CC and make AoE on trash because everyone knows that CC is hard. ohh wait they have are all ready that.
make HC retarded easy so everyone can walk with 9.25 tier 9. ohh wait they have are all ready that.

pro tip to blizzard, stop beeing so fucking causual freindly and make people really work for their gear again, just like in your old games.

[Sneezy]

when cataclysm gets released, expect a raise in the number of kids being born, nerds will become normal people again with less raids to attend, so they'll go out, get girlfriends, get married, get babies.

[Keoren]

I was really looking forward to Cataclysm raiding, but this really changed my mind. I might actually stop raiding.

[Dvaldin]

Wow, incredible news.

Really, I don't even know why they're even worried about making a 25-man raid version with the same loot available now. Just keep it at 10 and you don't even have to worry about equal difficulties. Twenty-five is going to have to be extremely "lucrative" to justify it with one lock-out. I agree with other posts on here that it must have a lot to do with the guild leveling system. Complete a 25-man, guild raid = get some pretty great guild benefits.

Or pug it in a 10, be unable to go in 25, and get kicked from your guild. lawlz.

There's a lot of really interesting philosophical changes coming in the game. Looking forward to seeing if the new system increases the subscriber base. Even if it holds steady, that's pretty good. Cataclysm is going to change everything.

[Jathro]

So instead of raiding the 10 and 25man version of the same instance on the same toon I'll instead do the same 10man on several different toons? And have 25man gear on all of them?

[Ylera]

Holy Crap, saw these changes get posted up - went AFK for a quick wank, and came back to find 400 replies ;D

TMI

[Paulkariya]

I would love to see an endgame scenario where, if you do not have the gear, bosses mushroom tattoo your forehead and tell you to go back and kill Anub Arak because you ain't ready for teh Marrowgar.

I know it will never happen again, but shoot it may legitimize progression raiding again, even in 10 man only formats

[Snes]

Bon Voyage, blizz haters.

[Domiku]

as a company this is a good move for blizzard. less people doing 25man less demand on the servers, as someone rightly said 10 man cleared in 1 - 2 days and afk rest of week. that would mean people playing less (not a bad thing) but it means blizz wont have to fork out as much on bandwidth so another plan to save some cash.

I can see the positives in the changes but I can also see the downsides. i.e nabs getting awesome kit, alto i,m guessing heroic mode will be for the real raiders. the change will allow the retards to get good kit but same time penalize the good players in having nothing to show for until they get to heroic mode.

[PurechaosSK]

Sounds sweet. Can you go back to the trophy system implemented in ToC. This seems to work nicely so that certain classes dont have 4 pc sanct for their main and off specs while other classes have 1 or 2 for their main spec.

It is also removes alot of "Barriers to entry" for gearing out alts or switching your main character.

thanks

[widowmaker]

I sooooo hope this will get many hardcore, elitist, vanilla-praising jerks finally out of the game. If you dislike changes so much and keep threating to /wowquit each change Blizz makes -> DO IT! Don't let us stop you! Quit already, and let us have some fun without your bullshit.

[Nykez]

I no longer see a reason to do 25 mans.

Grats blizz, way to fuck over any serious raiding guild. Why waste your time finding 25 good players when you only need 10? Just take the 10 best out of your guild and sit the rest for a week, its easier than struggling with 25.

This. And raid comps are so much easier to cheese in 10 mans, so i think 10 mans will be by far easier in the end and there is absolutely no reason to do 25 mans. I'll miss you serious raiding :'(

[Zace]

Only bad's don't like this change because they won't have 24 people to hide behind. As a hardcore bleeding edge raider from lvl 60-70 I welcome this change wholeheartedly.

[Jubeithar]

Same lockout - I can live with it.

Same rewards - Haha this is bullshit, why give the same rewards to 10m raids who require far less organisation then 25m guilds? No the quantity won't help fuck at all. We still got to gear up more people on 25m raids then 10m raids. Unless it drops 3x to 4x times the loot then it's okish but really, but thank you for ruining a part of the motivation now to raid actually on 25m, as it was not alrdy hard enough to find solid recruits.
Same difficulty - Absolute bullshit, you'll just give more classes the same buffs. Unless encounters are compleetly faceroll it's going to be close to impossible to balance this. Sorry but no this won't work. Again, thank you to kill an other part of the motivation.


This raid design will not work at all, it's even WORSE then the current system we have. Just because some "wannabe" 10m strict guilds aren't happy with the current system, doesn't mean you have to break it for 25m raiders who actually want to ENJOY raiding.
So yea it's your turn blizz, unless you give a really good reason to continue 25m raids. You'll see guilds going down.

[Deleted]

This is bullshit

i dont like it