Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Crispin]

yes but people doing kara didn't get ssc level gear they got kara gear

no shit sherlock?

GJ missing the point.

[Quesly]

Because I hate 25man guilds facerolling 10man content and /lol /spit on those who do it on appropriate gear lvl.
Yes, there are idiots who actually think overgearing doesn't make a difference.

so....what your saying is you want to overgear 10 man too?

[Cilraaz]

Did you read the post ?

they will also keep the try system ... a hardcore raiding guild has a 25-man alt raid just to practise ON TOP of the 10 man group expirience.

They said they were keeping gating, not the limited attempts.

[Aphrel]

blizzard announcing that tehy will take down all the server forever whould have given me the same reaction as this. im shocked

[Downwithopp]

Deathbringer Saurfang comes to my mind.
Mark of the Fallen Champion:
(25) Yeah sure 5 guys have the mark no big deal our 6 healers can handle it
(10) Guys we have one mark up kill it fast or the 2 healers will be over run

If you have 6 marks up in 25 man normal you're guild is awful, and if you have 6 marks up I hope to god its on Heroic and thats just the encounter.

[kenneth044]

So just because its your offspec means its okay to gem it like a kid who rolled out of the fucking shortbus? I don't need any more knowledge about you. You don't put effort into knowing anything about your class. You throw gems in the correct sockets because it looks pretty, and you have no common sense on how the game actually works.

You are seriously trying to tell me that gemming for defense after cap is beneficial? That right there proves you are a mindless piece of garbage. Regardless you haven't seen past Princes in 25 man. If thats your offspec, I shudder to think what your mainspec looks like.

You are still rolling with that "kid" attitude? It really does make you look bad.
I could gem pure stamina if I'd like, sure. Again, you have no knowledge about me nor my char.

Why don't you link me your armory, since you speak so mighty?

[Vanilla]

More loot dropping from the 25 man versions sounds like a killer idea. Get geared faster ftw!

and when you are geared ?

sitting in IF and waiting or what ?

[Deleted]

Did you read the post ?

they will also keep the try system ... a hardcore raiding guild has a 25-man alt raid just to practise ON TOP of the 10 man group expirience.

You missed my point. I was pointing out the contradictions on this thread, nothing more.

[Ghrog74]

Geeze people... 25 Mans are not going to be obsolete.

In fact if you can run 25's and still need loot it's better for you to do just that.

Bosses drop more loot per person so if a 10 man boss drops you 1 emblem and 10 Gold per person... and 2 pieces of gear (1 in 5 chance of getting it) then an equivilent 25 man boss will likely drop say... 2 emblems and 13 Gold per person... and say 6 pieces of gear (almost a 1 in 4 chance now instead of 1 in 5)


25 mans should gear up guilds quicker than 10 mans, and if they do make the difficulty of actually fighting the boss about equal then the only extra difficulty is pulling together 25 people rather than just 10 which is now offset by the extra loot per person.


That said, I am kinda sad to see the combined lockout cuz I enjoyed running both 10's and 25's, but I can see why they did it.

[Downwithopp]

You are still rolling with that "kid" attitude? It really does make you look bad.
I could gem pure stamina if I'd like, sure. Again, you have no knowledge about me nor my char.

Why don't you link me your armory, since you speak so mighty?

This name, Anetheron.

I don't need to know anything more about you. You are awful. You gem for defense over cap.

[Belial-sama]

so....what your saying is you want to overgear 10 man too?

Try harder next time x
I'll do it in whatever drops for me in our runs.

This is a good change. For everyone who doesn't have a god complex.

QFT

[Lafleur]

Can't say I like the changes but only time will show how the whole thing will turn out,no need to QQ about it that early.

[Entz]

As someone who plays this game for small tight knit group of 10 people, this is awesome. Running 25 mans has always been a source of frustration as it seems you get 18 people who know what they are doing and 7 people who have got no clue and constantly wipe you.

There is nothing to say, however, that certain items (read Legendary) will not be 25 man only. Nor is there anything saying that 25 man wont have unique content rewards (i.e. Invincible for 25HM only ).

Increasing the difficulty for 10 mans will be nice, they are too easy atm (esp with access to free loot 25 man gear ). I think back to Kara in Heroic gear. Doing moroes, now that was fun and a challenge.

Shared lockouts, about time.
Plus its more time working on PVP/Real life. No more 4+ nights a week raiding.

[Volitans]

wow do people actually read the blue post, or skim and pull out keywords?

I think IF 10 and 25 mans are tuned the same, then 10mans will be harder than 25 (less room for fail).

I like the addition of several smaller raids as opposed to 1 really long raid at each tier, because it will give people with kids/work/responsibilities the chance to complete a raid in one night, and not get saved to half a raid.

Removing the attempts is a good idea. if a guild is dedicated enough to spend 6 hours wiping on a single boss, then they should be allowed to.

[Silarn]

Technically speaking, if 25-mans are supposed to be MORE EFFICIENT at gearing up, the number of drops for 25 will have to be increased significantly.

If they're doing what it sounds like they're doing, then it will be along the lines of 2-3 drops in 10-mans (or roughly a 1/5 drop rate for the raid), 8-10 drops in 25 (or roughly a 2/5 drop rate).

If that is the case, then I have no problem with the new system. 25s get the same loot, but they gear up noticeably (perhaps 2x) faster.

[Crispin]

This name, Anetheron.

Sigh, keep the armory pissing contest for school and your friends in 8th grade.

[Lichiz]

NERD RAGE INCOMING, WHAT THE F*CK IS BLIZZARD DOING!

[Jathro]

Deathbringer Saurfang comes to my mind.
Mark of the Fallen Champion:
(25) Yeah sure 5 guys have the mark no big deal our 6 healers can handle it
(10) Guys we have one mark up kill it fast or the 2 healers will be over run

How bad is your guild's dps on 25man?

[zeal]

This how i always said WotLK raid progression should have been when it was first announced, so i'm glad they've finally come to their senses and done so.

With multiple dungeons, i can see it being less of an issue, but i many guilds have flexable numbers within a week, so it would be nice to also have 10 and 25 player mode share the same id and be activated the same way as heroic mode is, so support changing numbers on different days.

[degobyan]

You know what it said on the WoTLK features page? "MAKE YOUR OWN DANCES" Yeah, that didnt happen either, just because Billy Mays tells you that the putty will stick to a semi and trailer and pull it doesnt mean its going to actually happen.

Yea lets compare a dance studio to the most important thing in World of Warcraft. Clearly they'll apply the same attention to raiding as they do a fucking dance studio.

I swear WoW attracts the most retarded people in the world (not saying everyone is, but many of them most definitely are and everyone knows it).


On a more serious note, this is a godsend for PvPers who can't always get into to 25 man raids for a god damn deathbringers will that warriors basically NEED to be competitive at high end arena. Of course thats assuming the game will still require 4 pieces of pve gear to be the best in pvp which should be fixed individually anyways.

And wth is with the QQ

25 man raids - u get gear faster. everyone that can will still do that anyways. who the fuck wants to wait longer when you don't have to. QQing fags like yourselves?

Shared Lockout - There are multiple raids. You won't get sick of them as easily. Since raids are only 6ish bosses now, you can get as far as you should be able to get in 1 day anyways so why worry about getting people on for next time. And maybe if you kill 1 boss in 25 man and go in to 10 man later then that one boss will just be dead and you can keep going? Who knows?


How can you guys think that your idea of how this is gonna work that you came up with in 15 minutes is better or more correct than experienced game designers who spend 8 hours a day thinking about this shit?