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  1. #901

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    It saddens me that no matter what they say unless it's a major buff to your class the majority of you bitch and whine like the world is about to fucking end.
    Examples (if you've browsed this site for a minute and a half you've probably read it before):
    -Oh no not the bads, god forbid if there are people under my skill level who might join the same pug as I'm in and destroy my entire evening because I can't be arsed to either tell them how to do things properly or spend more than a fraction of a second finding a group only to whine at them for being n00bs once I get saved to the instance.
    -I hate gearscore but yours is too low so gtfo.
    -Boo hoo content is too hard/easy and Blizz is an evil corporation that only wants money as opposed to any other company out there THIS IS NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR IN VANILLA (which is the only thing that matters ever).

    If you don't like a product stop using it. How can it be harder than that?

  2. #902
    Deleted

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnan
    Can everyone please STOP saying 10 man guilds can only contain casual people?

    as this means we no longer have to pug shitty 25 man raids to get equal gear as people facerolling trough normal 25 man ICC.
    QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

  3. #903

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Still no word on whether they're planning on implimenting some sort of blue quality dungeon set. That would be wonderful.

  4. #904

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon
    Why are you PuG'ing ICC25 so you can faceroll through your 10HC. kk
    Why should 25 man guilds gain the same ilvl gear from normal ICC as 10 man guilds gain from heroic ICC?
    "If you need to add '10char' to be able to post, don't bother posting at all."


  5. #905

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Oh, something else I've thought of that will hopefully be implemented (and it somewhat already is going to be), is a small amount of attunement to raids. Not so much a bigass quest chain to enter a raid, but just something small. "Kill the last boss of raid A", and you're attuned to raid B. They already said that you need to have completed an instance on normal mode to enter it's heroic counterpart, which is good. Now, the reason I want to see this sort of small attunement return is simply because - who raids Naxxramas and Ulduar anymore? Aside for the weekly, I'd like to see the older instances still have people running them later into the expansion with alts so they can enter the latest raids.

    Meh, just my two cents.

  6. #906
    Deleted

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by sephrael
    There is very little evidence of how "great" these items will be, if the heirlooms are useful for anything but levelling, how expensive they will be, how many a guild can own.. etc etc. All I've seen from Blizzard on the subject was guild-wide crafting recipes, and heirlooms.. not legendary items, and then the guild talents which seem mostly along the lines of "that was easy" buttons for the more tedious aspects of raids. Unless the guild levelling is going to give tangible rewards to everyone without absurd cost, it's not going to really mitigate the problems I'm talking about very much. You can hold it up guild levelling as a talisman all you want, but there's very little data from Blizzard to support these claims (unless I've missed a blue post somewhere).
    Sure, it's all speculation by now, but it's a great way to reward those that want to do 25 man. Path of Titans the same.

  7. #907

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirator
    The ONLY way this could be a good thing is if they bumped 10-man difficulty up to 25-man difficulty instead of dumbing 25-man down to 10-man. This I wouldn't mind. However, if this goes down vise-versa, this is going to absolutely ruin the game for Hundreds of thousands of players. Ends of story.

    We all know how often people QQ about Blizzard making things better for casuals and less difficult for hard core guild, the guilds that actually make this game what it is, but it is true. Every patch almost it seems like they are making the game more and more casual friendly and making the serious players less and less important.
    Agreed; this is probably what's going to happen. They'll up the difficulty in 10man raids instead of bringing down the 25man difficulty. Haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if anyone mentioned this but also there are going to be more than one choice on what raid to do, instead of the linear progression that WotlK brought us Cataclysm will have multiple raids with the same item level of loot out at one time. This being said it'll allow guilds to focus their 25man progression team on one particular raid and then their 10man team can focus on what they didn't raid that week. Depending on how it gets worked this, in my humble opinion, won't kill 'hardcore' guilds but instead just add more variety. We're all use to the linear progression of WotlK now that having a variety of raids to choose from without item level swaying the decision is overlooked which is where most of the QQ comes from.

  8. #908

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    plz plz people before you qq read the #$%ing post carefully!!

  9. #909

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This is the worst thing Blizzard has ever done, they are completely ruining their game. Most people likely won't even have a desire to play anymore, why even get 25 people online when you can just do it with 10?.

  10. #910

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    That is a horrible horrible TERRIBLE idea.
    Why the hell should I take the time to run with a 25 man group, when I can simply run 10 mans and get the same damned gear? Of course there will me MORE items dropping in 25 man, because there are more people in the damned raid.
    Blizzard, fire the people coming up with these ideas right fuckin now because they are literally killing this game. If you had announced this idea at blizzcon you would of gotten boo'd right off the stage.
    No I have never gone to a blizzcon (would be cool) but I know the type of people that would go to those places and they hate your mothers right now. I was excited about cataclysm but now I am leaning towards dreading it.

  11. #911

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnan
    Why should 25 man guilds gain the same ilvl gear from normal ICC as 10 man guilds gain from heroic ICC?
    Ermmmm, I duno. Maybe because 25 heroic requires you have that level of gear?

  12. #912

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    "10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout"

    HAHAHAHA I'm glad I quit !

  13. #913

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    big nerdrage in this thread.Oh my god blizz what have you DONE? ? ?
    Mal'Ganis is DEAD!Deal with it!

  14. #914
    Deleted

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Heroic Martyr
    Blizzard is being pathetically lazy at this point. Remember when 10 and 25 mans used to be DIFFERENT raids and not the same thing with fewer people? Now it's even lazier than that making you choose 10 or 25 versions of the same raid with the same loot.
    Making more raids (since Blizz don't need to spent time on raid balancing) = lazy?

    Honestly, can't really grasp this kind of logic.

  15. #915

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Just give separate 10-mans and 25-mans, like on 70 level...

  16. #916

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Honestly as a 10 man raider I like that the changes, although it isn't all sunshine and gumdrops. I have done 40 and 25 man raiding very seriously for a very long time. Through out all of vanilla and BC I was "hardcore". Honestly, I hated it. I never found it harder or easier really than 10 man raiding, just simply more annoying.

    However, I understand that it's really only my personal preference. So I am a bit worried that this will erode 25 man guilds. The amount of items that would need to drop per boss would have to be pretty damn good. Generally you get 2 per 10 man meaning a 20% spread. For it to be "more efficient" you'd be looking at a minimum of 6 items per boss in 25 and even then it's not THAT much more efficient. I just don't think efficiency is enough of a motivating factor to deal with the unwieldiness that is 25 man raiding. If they go the badge route and encounters drop significantly more badges per boss then I can see a number of guilds sticking with the 25 man format but by in large I see it dying off.

  17. #917

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Fuck you blizzard.

    Emek has spoken, that is all.

  18. #918

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Lol @ QQers.

    I am very excited for these changes.

    Warender - Orc Enhancement Shaman - Mal'Ganis US

  19. #919

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon
    Ermmmm, I duno. Maybe because 25 heroic requires you have that level of gear?
    Never said it doesn't, but that doesn't answer my question.
    "If you need to add '10char' to be able to post, don't bother posting at all."


  20. #920

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I like the concept of a raid being able to switch to a 10m if their isn't enough on for 25m but I think this method is going to hurt more then help.

    If Tuesday you do a 25m and wed you only have 20 people on, then that means you obviously do nothing or switch to a 10m. Since 10 and 25 are the same raid ID, this means you will have to sit TEN people in order to raid that day and those 10 people that got sat will not be able to do that content on their own later on.

    This will probably lead guilds to do go along the same path they are now of "lets just not raid today, instead of screwing over half of our guild."

    I would be pretty upset with my guild if I I didn't get to finish a raid instance for the week because I got sat due to 5 other people not showing up.

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