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  1. #1001

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This is going to destroy 25-man raiding, but not because of gear.

    Every serious 25-man raider in my guild enjoys running 10-mans for fun, or to blow off steam from 25-mans. With their removal from the game, no one is going to want to be part of a 25-man guild. The 10-mans will simply be more relaxing, and have similar rewards.

    My guild has been together for over four years. We raided MC, BWL, and ZG together. This could very well be the end.

  2. #1002

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcano
    making 10 man and 25 man dropping the same loot, is going to make 25 man obsolete :S
    why bother trying to raid or even worst raid lead 25 people when you can do it with 10 and get the same reward?
    I'm sorry.

    What blizzard is doing now are the same exact idea's i shared and believed in when WOTLK was in beta and people were talking about 10 man raiding guilds and how to make them on par to 25 man loot. As were many others.

    1) You get more gold in 25
    2) You get more quantity of loot in 25
    3) You get more badges

    Is this not enough for you?

  3. #1003

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    awful, awful changes. seriously, just awful. unless 25man drops four times as much loot its going to have no benefit over 10mans. consider it, 10 man = 2 tanks, 3 healers. do you get two and a half more tanks and healers in a 25man? no, the composition is different and loot distribution is different. 10man you got the exact same chance of an item dropping and half the competition to get it.

    just an appalling change, a genuine potential gamekiller.

  4. #1004

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkmiget
    25 mans are not dead. If anyone has been reading the post AT ALL 25 mans will be getting more gold, a higher chance of having what they want/need drop...and more badges....while these might be small upgrades...in the long run if you are doing sucessful 25 mans, you will gear up faster and have more gold than another guild that has progressed through the same raid at the same pace through 10 man. (to contradict myself in a way...I see this change as a have to see how it works to give it a good or bad opinion)
    why do you seem to think gold is important?

    badges are important for 2 months when content is fresh

    If you have 2 melee in your 10 man group and 8 melee in your 25 man group you have 4x better chance at getting an item that does drop compared to having 1 extra item to dole out


    I really think 25s are going to be the faceroll and 10s will be the hard content with this set up. I don't see how else they could balance it

  5. #1005

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tang
    They aren't.
    Except that most people don't feel that they are. Which is why, since it's your personal opinion that WoW isn't good enough, it's your personal responsibility to either put your money where your mouth is and not pay/play, or shut up, since you're obviously more bark than bite.

    I think White Castle and Long John Silvers suck. So I don't eat there. Ever. I don't go there every day and complain about the crappy food, I just spend my money elsewhere, or eat at home.
    So what do you like? Wendy's? What if their 5 pc chicken nugget turned into a 2 pc chicken nugger for the same price. Some people would still go there if they enjoy it.

    People still like the game they just may have problems with changes and deal with it , doesnt mean they cant express their disapproval. At a glance thats how I feel , my raid time got cut in half UNLESS they make more raids, which is what I said in numerous posts before. It's all early n e ways.

  6. #1006

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeina
    So.. first they make it easier to get gear.. and people complain.

    Now, it seems like it'll take longer to get gear.. and people complain.

    Let's say...

    A 10 man dropped 2 pieces of gear per boss and 2 emblems (like now).

    and.

    A 25 man dropped 5 pieces of loot and 5 emblems.

    You can only do one a week. Are you really give up on 25 mans? Especially if there is 4 raids with 4-6 bosses apeice in them?

    And to the people complaining about clearing it in 1-2 nights.. did you miss the part about there being more raids in this expansion? Or did you just read one thing that pissed you off and then proceeded to nerdrage about it for 15 minutes?

    How about everyone waits until all the details are hammered out before you go all emo /wrists on yourself.




    I love the internet, but it has certainly given a horrible rise to the amount of idiocy in the world.


    Ok, ummm...in TBC you could clear SSC/TK in 2 raid nights easy In hyjal you could clear it that night and then a huge chunk in of BT and then finish it off the next day. Same will be ib cata with 2 raids. I'm going to go ahead and say that you NEVER raided in tbc or you simply never got into a good raiding guild back then. Your comment fails.

  7. #1007

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Also, this is a troll comment, but it's probably partially true.

    I gurantee most of the people that are /cheer are the ones whom aren't good enough to be in decent 25-man guilds. So if the 10-man difficulty is scaled higher in Cata, they probably aren't ever going to complete the new 10-mans either / get decent trinkets on ends bosses anyway, so nothing changes for them. LOL.

    If 10-man's were reguarly as difficult as Heroic mode 10-mans today, then this is definitely true, they shouldn't be cheering. =P
    Varnoxx // Unholy Death Knight

  8. #1008
    Scarab Lord Robinhoodexe's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Interesting :P can't wait until cataclysm
    Congratulations on graduating to expert level trolling, I would stick around but I'm busy getting gay married in 13 states and performing roadside abortions while passing bills that take away people's guns while i sip superior european wine and cheese i bought with european style socialist money, arrivaderci!

  9. #1009

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    At long long long last. No more waiting for people that don't show up,
    no more 5 Dc's per boss, no more alot of bad things.
    This idea is the best since a long time.

    P.S If you don't like this new system the only reason you play wow is sit in Dalaran showing of your 25 man gear
    Oh yeah it's true bububuahahaa


    Salvation has arrived

  10. #1010

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tang
    If the bosses in 25 man have 3 drops and the bosses in 10 man have one drop, and the bosses in 25 man drop 3 badges, and the bosses in 10 man drop 2 badges, then you'll gear up faster in 25 man, assuming you're able to clear the same content.

    I know this concept that took me about 5 seconds to figure out, probably seems like advanced rocket surgery to you, but trust me, it's not that complicated.
    No one cares about gearing up faster, they care about getting gear that you can't.

    Yeah, yeah. Ooooh ePeen nerd. This is the fucking internet and we're playing World of Warcraft, the nerd holy grail. We all have ePeens.
    Torethirnyi, Blackwing's Bane - Orc Enhancement Shaman - <Conviction> of Korgath - (H) 9/13 25-man - Retired from WoW in 4.1
    Champion Torethyr Sarin - Cyborg Vengeance Juggernaut - <Conviction> of Prophecy of the Five - 10/10 Nightmare Mode - Retired

    Nothing makes you hate MMOs more than having played MMOs.

  11. #1011

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Undercovercracker

    I really dont qualify WoW as a hardcore game at any level other than heroic mode perhaps.
    indeed. hardcore is when you die the game shows you a message like "you are dead. please create a new toon, noob".

  12. #1012

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by zaneosak
    So what do you like? Wendy's? What if their 5 pc chicken nugget turned into a 2 pc chicken nugger for the same price. Some people would still go there if they enjoy it.

    People still like the game they just may have problems with changes and deal with it , doesnt mean they cant express their disapproval. At a glance thats how I feel , my raid time got cut in half UNLESS they make more raids, which is what I said in numerous posts before. It's all early n e ways.
    Pretty sure they just compared fast food to WoW, shit is getting serious!!!!

  13. #1013
    Mechagnome Leftineus's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    THUMBS UP. Its about time. No it doesn't kill 25 man raiding. if you want to 25 man raid... then 25 man raid. Was that hard? As far as balancing goes, it can be done. Maybe now some of this "class homogenization" as some people call makes sense to some people. It isn't so much homogenization as it is making this goal a lot easier on developers. For example 10 man raiding is viable with out requiring a Shaman as it does now.




  14. #1014
    The Patient
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by TelDrud
    hmmm think they should keep 25man with better loot cos otherwise raiding on 25man will be pointless.... although more loot drops will keep ppl playing 25man every week cos of greater opportunity to get gear
    When you think about it it really doesn't. Fighting 1 or 2 people for one piece of gear in a 10m, or fighting 4 or 5 people for 2 or 3 pieces of gear in a 25m. More chances to win something but more people to fight against for it.

  15. #1015

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    First They Took out 40 Mans Now 25 lol It was a good game Good times

  16. #1016

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    why do you seem to think gold is important?

    badges are important for 2 months when content is fresh

    If you have 2 melee in your 10 man group and 8 melee in your 25 man group you have 4x better chance at getting an item that does drop compared to having 1 extra item to dole out


    I really think 25s are going to be the faceroll and 10s will be the hard content with this set up. I don't see how else they could balance it
    Why would your 25 man have 4 times as many melee as your 10 man when it's only 2.5x as large? Where did all the extra melee come from? There must be several other 10 mans who have 3-4 melee, and for them, they're going to get way better odds in 25 man than in 10 man.

  17. #1017

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    You can never balance raid difficulty between 10 man and 25 man for 1 simple reason...

    In 25 mans you can constantly take the tank from full health to dead with big hits because you have 6-8 healers. In a 10 man you can't stress the tank so much without just running your 2-3 healers oom, or making it beyond their healing capacity.
    The ballance can't be made indeed. But not for this "1 simple reason". Go read the news about healing system in Cata...

  18. #1018

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Astarion45
    Pretty sure they just compared fast food to WoW, shit is getting serious!!!!
    He did it first, I'm just following his model...

  19. #1019
    High Overlord
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Finally hard mode 10 man players get rewarded for their hard work and won't have to have equivilent gear of 25 man normal mode players! This is a great change for my guild since we only have the people for 10 man, I hope that they stay true in making 10 man normal and hard mode roughly as hard as 25 player mode so that it doesnt become pointless to do 25 player mode but I'm glad that theres a reason to do 10 mans when you could do 25 player mode instead.

    Dark approves! ^^
    Count Off! 1! 1! 1! 1! 1! 1! 1! 1!

  20. #1020

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by skaarrj
    I'm sorry.

    What blizzard is doing now are the same exact idea's i shared and believed in when WOTLK was in beta and people were talking about 10 man raiding guilds and how to make them on par to 25 man loot. As were many others.

    1) You get more gold in 25
    2) You get more quantity of loot in 25
    3) You get more badges

    Is this not enough for you?
    Just a BIG NO !

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