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  1. #1101

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    While people say it is killing of 25 mans nobody is stopping you from making a group and if other more experienced players want to do 25 mans with you then what is the problem? All the casuals who don't spend too much time playing will go to 10 mans and leave the 25 mans for the more experienced players. Seems like a good way to filter players.

  2. #1102

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I think people are thinking 10mans will be "easier" than the 25 mans much as they are now. However, they are only easier because you are doing it in your 25 man gear while 10 mans are tuned for people who only have access to 10man gear.

    With putting 10 and 25 on the same tier, 10 mans will have to be tuned for the same level of gear just fewer people. ie NOT easier or harder
    Throw what you know raiding to be right now out the window and start fresh
    Cataclysm =/= Wrath of the Lich King

  3. #1103

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by evilgnomey
    10 man:
    -10 people, maybe 6 bosses in one raid.
    -each boss drops 2 items out of a possible 8+?.
    -12 bits of loot with a 25% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

    25 man:
    -25 people, maybe 6 bosses.
    -each boss drops 5 items out of a possible 8+?
    -30 bits of loot with a 62.5% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

    in 25's you have a better chance of getting the loot you want faster, so people who do 25's have a chance of gearing faster then people who do 10's.

    Yea because we dont have 5 months between content patches to get all the gear we need....


  4. #1104

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by soradakey
    As to the people wondering why people bitch and complain then still play for years and years.
    http://www.cracked.com/article_18461...-addicted.html
    I found that article extremely biased. I mean the whole purpose of MMO's is to make a game you don't finish in 5-60 hours. From a developer's standpoint it's impossible to make totally unique content you only play a couple times max so spreading the rewards evenly for a (on average) steady progression which doesn't bore you before the new content arrives (excluding a certain amount of people obviously) is the only way to keep people renewing their subscriptions. And players accept this not because they are tricked into it but because that's what they wanna spend their time doing.

    WoW is not addictive unless you let it be.

  5. #1105

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Seems like a good way to filter players.
    Filter them for what? For recieving equal loot?

  6. #1106

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by evilgnomey
    10 man:
    -10 people, maybe 6 bosses in one raid.
    -each boss drops 2 items out of a possible 8+?.
    -12 bits of loot with a 25% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

    25 man:
    -25 people, maybe 6 bosses.
    -each boss drops 5 items out of a possible 8+?
    -30 bits of loot with a 62.5% chance you will get the loot you want per boss, if you want any from that boss.

    in 25's you have a better chance of getting the loot you want faster, so people who do 25's have a chance of gearing faster then people who do 10's.
    cause in 10 and 25 man there is no diffrence in people wanting that item to
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  7. #1107

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille

    Overall, our goal is that you make the decision between whether to raid with 10 players or 25 players based on what you find fun and not because of the reward structure.
    Can't you people just not get this ? How pathetic addicted people are really.

  8. #1108

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Assuming what they are shooting for exactly what they are saying, I don't see why there is any reason for any "hardcore" player to hate this. If anything this means casual raiders should be hating it.

    Why? The key phrase is them saying they want the difficulty of both 10 and 25 man to be the same. This means no more bullshit like what the majority of casual raiding guilds are doing now. Which is not being able to do the 25 man version without grinding out the easier 10 man. And when they get better gear from the 10 man, attempt 25 again with success.

    Instead, if all works out as planned, if you cant clear the instance in 25 man, don't even attempt it in 10 man. You still have to work on the last tier before entering the new instance. Where in comparison to WOTLK, you can be significantly under-geared in comparison to the avg ilvl of the current tier, and still clear the 10 man version.

    I also like the idea of the looting system. If both 10 and 25 are truly just as difficult, having the same ilvl of gear makes since. But it also is logical that the 25 man version will give you greater rewards. But instead of it being higher ilvl gear, more will drop. I'm assuming if 10 man version gives you 2x pieces of gear per player, 25 man will give you 3-5x pieces of gear per player (obviously the numbers are an estimate, but its just the idea that more gear will drop in the 25 man instance per-player). Not to mention there could be more rep-gains in the 25 man version, what would lead to faster progression of getting rep related gear.

    As far as im concerned this seem like it could very well cater to the "hardcore" payers more then the casual. Unless they are aiming for the 10 man version of difficulty in current. Which I highly doubt.



  9. #1109

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by evilgnomey
    in 25's you have a better chance of getting the loot you want faster, so people who do 25's have a chance of gearing faster then people who do 10's.
    Let me put it like this: a 25 man raid might have say, 5 or 6 caster dps that want the same piece of gear. The piece you want drops... you're up against small odds that you'll get it over 4 or 5 other people. And that's if it even drops in the first place.

    Now in a balanced 10 man raid you'll have 1 or 2 casters. If the piece you want drops you're either guaranteed to get it or you get a 50/50 chance at it.

    So no, in 25s you do not have a better chance of getting something faster.

  10. #1110

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I like it (I'm a 25-man Raider, not super hard-core though), and here's why:

    I'm a Tank. There are a ton of people in my relatively small Guild that like to Tank, but Raids only need, at most, 3 Tanks per 25-man. This opens the door for more people to perform the role of their choice. I hate DPS'ing, but I'm forced to sustain a competitive DPS spec because, again, there's often more Tanks than are needed.

    Guilds will adapt. The community decides what is accepted as "hardcore", not Blizzard. We see 25-man Hard Mode achievements as top of the line. This is in part because 10-mans aren't tuned for players who run 25 Hard Modes.

    With the difficult between 10 and 25 being closer, perhaps we'll see some of the extremely skilled small groups on the front page, instead of just watching the same Guilds that get World 1st's in 25's get World Firsts in 10's...

    I agree, in the current state of the game, it doesn't shine well for 25's. Again, though, that's just how we currently see things. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that Blizzard isn't 100% happy with how things are currently. When I read other News Posts, it doesn't seem like the community is happy about it either.

    I like it. If you're in a position to do 25-hard modes right now, what are you afraid of?

    Top complaints of previous News Posts have been:

    1. I hate having to raid the same encounter X times.
    A: Shared lockout.

    2. I hate that some of my BiS items are from 10-man.
    A: Same quality between 10/25.

    3. It's always the same World First 25 guilds that get World First 10.
    A: Shared lockout.

    I see this as progress. I think it will really force Guilds to flush out their extra baggage. That's a good thing though, in my opinion.

    Stigas, Frostmane-US (if anyone wishes to check credentials)

  11. #1111

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Thanks blizzard for killing the only reason why I raid. 25m content.

    You will not be able to sustain 25 man guilds in your proposed environment. The drama that would develop over create 10M raids within a "large" guild would quickly break them up.

    I guess I needed a good reason to quit. And you have given me one. Youve totally deflated my enthusiasm toward Cataclysm.

  12. #1112

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    25mans eventually will be phased out. Over a year ago I knew eventually 10mans would start getting more focus. And in their next mmo i'll be surprised if they even have 25mans anymore.

    I don't like the change just less options means more bordem in the long run. But whatever.


  13. #1113

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaman
    What the hell am I going to do for the rest of the week after 25 mans now.
    DERP!

    Roll an alt and experience it as a different role if you absolutely must run the same content multiple times per week genious.

    Fuck...is simple logic honestly this difficult to grasp?

  14. #1114

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Maybe if all the people that hate this change could throw themselves off a bridge to show their disapproval of this change, Blizzard will see that most of us welcome the change.

    It will fragment some guilds like when they dropped the 40 man raids.

    I like the change Cata is getting better by the day.

  15. #1115

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This is one of the worst ideas ever. While 25 man will drop more loot than 10 man, the ratio of loot per the amount of people will probably be the same, unless 25 man drops a significant amount of loot, 10 man drops 2 pieces of loot per boss which is 1/5 therefore just to MATCH it each 25 man boss will have to drop 5 pieces and to make 25 man even worth it, each boss will have to drop more than 5. > >

  16. #1116

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Epicadin
    The problem is no incentive to do 25s...
    Quote Originally Posted by skaarrj
    Yes there is.

    More loot.
    More Gold
    More badges so you will get loot quicker.

    Why is this not enough?
    there is more loot? but also = 15 more players.
    and more gold? = still more players so it will be almost the same.
    and more badges? = well, since its harder to clear a 25 man then a 10 you prob would get more badges in 10.

  17. #1117

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Arandmoor
    DERP!

    Roll an alt and experience it as a different role if you absolutely must run the same content multiple times per week genious.

    Fuck...is simple logic honestly this difficult to grasp?
    Internet.

  18. #1118

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Arandmoor
    DERP!

    Roll an alt and experience it as a different role if you absolutely must run the same content multiple times per week genious.

    Fuck...is simple logic honestly this difficult to grasp?
    You seem to struggle similarly with simple logic. People like to complain. People hate change. This is how the world (of Warcraft) works.

  19. #1119

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by trevoldt
    Can't you people just not get this ? How pathetic addicted people are really.
    A lot of people just go for the easiest option to attain the gear they want, seeing as this is likely to be 10man.....this will make it hard for people who want the larger scale, more challenging content to find enough active 25 man guilds on their server. This may take away the choice to do what you want, to raid the size/style of content you want. Perhaps this is something you need to learn to get. This change may hinder choice, not aide it.

  20. #1120
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    185

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    This might be the most retarded thing they have ever done to this game...


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