Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[chrono469]

Love it. Fucking love it.

This thread is 85 pages long and counting for one reason. Thats because the people too many people who post weren't around in the time when this game became popular. If you joined in BC or Wrath, you're obviously going to complain, because you are used to getting your epics handed to you. For those of us left from Pre-BC, I think this change will really hit home for us.

I expect to see a change in the player base for sure, but hell, I don't care. I'd rather play with people who started to play for the same reason I did.

[Aion]

I'm in favor of this change, because I prefer 10 man raiding. I just hope they actually manage the whole difficulty thing properly.

[axelbaxel]

What a lot of people seem to forget are guild levels. Maybe they will make 25mans lucrative through some guild talents.

[rkma]

This system can absolutely work if Blizzard amps up the difficulty of 10-man raids. Something has to compensate for not having to manage so many other people. In the new (old) world of mana management for healers, if 10-man bosses perhaps had more health relative to the DPS in comparison to 25-mans, then it would create a less forgiving environment for mistakes in 10-mans, because healers can't save you from your mistakes the way they can in 25-mans. Perhaps a boss that is a basic tank-and-spank in 25-man is more of a battle for survival in 10-man.

If Blizzard makes 10-mans harder than 25-mans (in the way that 10-man OS-3D was harder) then you're right, it won't kill 25-man guilds. But it will just mean that 10-mans become the harder content.

There's no way to properly balance 10 and 25. There will always be a difference.

[WaitingforSWTOR]

The advantages we gonna get from Guild Talent points will make 25 man progression worthy

Dont underestimate Blizzard´s wisdom

[Markluzz]

OH GOD. SAVE THE GUILDS THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT ANYWAY.

Without looking at wowprogress, what Guild on your server is currently ranked #17?

You can't answer, because they don't matter to you. Why are you all of a sudden up in arms defending them?

Some will last, some won't. Is this a reason to quit the game? I don't know, I'll be playing still. Will you?

PS: I fall under the category of a 10+baggage Guild. I have no idea what our plan will be. All I know is this is giving us options. Since when is this a bad thing? Because some random Guild you can't name might start doing 10's instead of 25's?

Currently rank 17 is Forlorn Legacy, but anyways the point is if 25 mans die many people will quit including friends of possibly you. Point im one of the people like many in my guild who prefer 25 man not 10 man, i do not want 25 man to die out, but i am glad i dont have to worry about doing the same raid twice each week.

[muto]

No warriors, no DKs, no mages, and all specs defined for the classes you do take...

already the FLAVOUR OF THE MONTH comps are starting, defining everyones guild and futures of their class......

i might try for a warrior though never had any issues with them but with no mage or death knight I'm unable to fail.

[TabascoEU]

If Blizzard makes 10-mans harder than 25-mans (in the way that 10-man OS-3D was harder) then you're right, it won't kill 25-man guilds. But it will just mean that 10-mans become the harder content.

There's no way to properly balance 10 and 25. There will always be a difference.

If 10 mans become the hardest content, you won't find any one locking themselves out of 25 man content to do 10 mans, except for server firsts. Even the current 10 man guilds will start pugging 25s, or merging. Either way, 1 or the other of the 2 sizes of raiding will fall. That is NOT good.

[rkma]

Dont underestimate Blizzard´s wisdom

Nobody is underestimating their wisdom. They just aren't that wise.

[Luthielle]

/popcorn

As an officer of a strictly 10-man raiding guild, I'm thrilled about this change. Our 10-man is mostly made up of real life friends, and while we've ran 25-man content before with pugs and guild alliances, they're never nearly as fun as when we stick to our 10-man group. I know that some people love the "epic" feel of a 25-man raid, and more power to them; some players just prefer that environment, and I figure those people will continue to run 25-man content. But my 10-man group is no less skilled than they are, and I for one am happy that we will finally get a shot at the same rewards!

[TabascoEU]

i might try for a warrior though never had any issues with them but with no mage or death knight I'm unable to fail.

fixed comps are baaaadd mmmkay.

e.g. you come up with the best comp to do XXX instance, you get world first with that comp....I feel sorry for all the players who dedicated the last few years to one class and possibly even spec if it doesn't fit the new SUPERIMBA 10 man comp that all the guilds suddenly want. yuk.

[drdead]

That's sad. This wont be the end for all of 25m guilds, however it will reduce their amount pretty much. For example, i like big guilds and enjoy doing 25 raids. I'm okay with the situation when 1-2 ppl from 25 are dying. But what if the guild i'm in will be disbanded? That will make my searching for the new one MUCH more harder than now. That's just wrong. Rewarding for being in 25 men guilds must be more than stupid badges (which will be after 1-2 month of active raiding about 1k emblems) and increased amount of epics dropped (great blizz's rnd will anyway give u 5x same pants, for example). If you are farming pieces for legendary it must be more shards in 25s. If you are trying to unlock hc mode - u need to kill bosses 1 time in 25 and 2-3 times in 10s. Epic recipes? 3x chance of 'em to drop in 25s than in 10s. Etc etc.
This idea is okay but requires A LOT of balancing tweaks to save 25 guilds and fit blizz's changes.

[chrono469]

Nobody is underestimating their wisdom. They just aren't that wise.

You're right. WoW hasn't been the most popular MMO for the past 4 years.. Theres no way they are wise...

And they haven't even said anything about available raids when Cata hits. It sounds like its going to be like BC. A Karazhan, and then some 25 mans. And then two available 25s, and some 10s to pick from. I like it. Who wants to kill the same boss 2-4 times a week...

[twinkleblur]

i love the idea it works for those who like 10s and works for those who like 25s. my computer isnt any good for 25s but i used to do 25s i dont see why someone would have a problem with this...since uldaur came out what happened? you were in t7.5 gear you did a few uld 10s the 1st drops you saw, werent upgrades. basically you went in for the acievment. the was no loot there and basically you just went in for badges.if ur raiding ICC right now? i can gaurentee unless your doing hard modes that loot doesnt intrest you 1 bit

[lilbuddhaman]

serious response:
So, now we have the same content that we only get to do ONCE a week, further slowing progression ... allowing blizz to inflate the lifetime of a Tier ... and lower the total time that X # of players are online for Y # of hours... further saving blizz money.... Yay, my $15 a month gets even me less fresh entertainment value!

funny (but still seriously possible of happening) response:
May 17th - Introducing the Raid Lockout Store
We are happy to announce that in addition to the new changes to raid lockouts, that players will have the opportunity to have access to additional raid lockouts of the same instance for the low price of $1 per lockout. Note, this is only for "fun" and none of the encounters will drop any loot when completed the second time.

August 12th - Bug Fixes
Resolved an issue where raid lockouts bought from the Raid Lockout Store would not drop any loot. Happy Hunting!

[Freedom]

The fuck is this shit? Ok, so now you'll have half the instances to do each week, and you can't have one big raid that does ok because you have a few bads and a more tight knit 10 man that gets serious progress/has a more friendly atmosphere.

Not to mention even more so than now EVERYONE will have the EXACT same damn items.

"We’ll be designing the first few raid zones assuming that players have accumulated some blue gear from dungeons, crafted equipment, or quest rewards. In general, we want you and your guild members to participate in and enjoy the level up experience."
Hellooooo first-day/week/month content clears. So by some you mean "U can raeds in 1/3rds greenz guyz".

Most likely this means I would choose a 10 or 25 man guild as there will now be NO middle ground. One upside to this is less "poop socking" or 8-10 hour raid days for people who can only play on the weekends however.

[Donald Hellscream]

i couldnt care less.. you still get more of everything by doing the 25 man version and people who only do 10 mans get their share.

[Ksmota]

/popcorn

As an officer of a strictly 10-man raiding guild, I'm thrilled about this change. Our 10-man is mostly made up of real life friends, and while we've ran 25-man content before with pugs and guild alliances, they're never nearly as fun as when we stick to our 10-man group. I know that some people love the "epic" feel of a 25-man raid, and more power to them; some players just prefer that environment, and I figure those people will continue to run 25-man content. But my 10-man group is no less skilled than they are, and I for one am happy that we will finally get a shot at the same rewards!

If you prefer 10 mans, what difference does it make whether you get the same loot or not? How is your raiding experience affected by 25 man loot being better? It's not like PVE gear is prevalent in PVP anymore (minus a few trinkets/weapons) so you can't use that justification.

[Commissar]

Hardmodes RUINED WoTLK, seems like they will ruin Cataclysm too.

Private PVP realm inc.

[Evanel]

Just posting my opinion, I think this is a terrible way to go with this game. World of warcraft will honestly have no variety in raiding encounters. I LOVE the variety in difficulty that world of warcraft offers now. These changes are going to lead a whole mess of people to wind up quitting this game. SHARED LOCKOUTS? Really? What is the purpose or meaning of that? So i get to do my raid or two for the week and then like others have said , just play alts? Sigh blizzard, will probably be quitting come cataclysm time, this game is just getting way to far away from its original vision, its getting ruined.